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Just to say I thought I would give The TALISMAN Pro tips a try made with layered pig skin.Always preferring a medium hard tip I ordered the mediums which in my mind were like steel but played ok,a week later I ordered the soft tips and they played like a medium hard blue/d or elk/m and didn't take much playing in and hold the chalk well.Hope this may be of help to some of you as these tips are expensive,so if you're thinking of trying them the soft aren't soft and the medium are HARD.