Ball on edge of pocket

[micky5280]

Hi, i witnessed a situation whereby the striker at the table took a hard shot at a red and as a result, a blue ball that was obviously close to the edge of a different pocket, fell in without any interference from another ball, I have read the rules and it appears that it wasnt a foul but the rules, as far as i can see dont take into account the power of the shot and subsequant vibration causing the foul. The referee at the time was unsure and it turned into a debacle with everyone debating the point.

Any ideas

[DeanH]

"Sec3 Rule 9 Ball on Edge of Pocket" is also known as the "vibration Rule"
The Rule is written for the exact scenario you describe. Especially for venues next to a railway, major road, etc.
If the player had no obvious, direct, blatant affect on the ball on the edge of a pocket then the rule 9(a) is applied, no foul, ball replaced, play continues as before.
The SRA Explanatory Notes states this rule should seek, where possible, the spirit of integrity; and so in your scenario I would apply the rule and continue, unless the referee had any concern that the player deliberately played hard to force vibration, etc...
The SRA Notes continues by saying if the applied rule is not enough, then for the spirit, replace the Blue, replace the Red and the player plays again, no foul, as per sec b(i).
hope this helps

[micky5280]

Fantastic answer many thanks, where i think the whole scenario fell down, was that no decision was made, right or wrong, and at our level it is important to make the decision and everyone accepts it, in the end it turned into a mass debate with one player refusing to carry on due to the argumentitve nature of his opponent.......so a total breakdown due to poor decision making.

[SnkrRef]

This is the full text of the rule:

9. Ball on Edge of Pocket
When a ball falls into a pocket without being hit by another ball, and:
(a) Being no part of any stroke in progress, it shall be replaced and any points previously scored shall count.
(b) If it would have been hit by any ball involved in a stroke:
(i) with no infringement of these Rules (including cases where an infringement would have occurred but for the ball falling into a pocket), all balls will be replaced and the same stroke played again, or a different stroke may be played at his discretion, by the same striker;
(ii) if a foul is committed, the striker incurs the penalty prescribed in Section 3 Rule 10, all balls will be replaced and the next player has the usual options after a foul.
(c) If a ball balances momentarily on the edge of a pocket and then falls in, it shall count as in the pocket and not be replaced.

[jrc750]

So what happened at the time ?? did blue go back where it was ? on it's spot ?? was a foul deemed to be made ??
Not nice when arguments happen during a match, often one player is convinced he is right but no one else agrees
At end of the day the referee at the time is in control, if it turns out he was wrong then not sure what can be done after the match, i suppose if it changed the whole outcome of the frame then maybe force a re match ??

[t.lavery55]

In this scenario the blue should be replaced back on the edge of the pocket and if the red was potted, the point is scored and the break continues. It makes no difference whether the vibration that caused the ball to drop in was from the shot being played or from an external source, such as an open window. Any such vibration scenarios fall under the "without being hit by another ball" requirement stated in Section 3 rule 9.

[DeanH]

unfortunate situation you had there