Newbie question - Is this kind of snooker ok?

[Mavoz]

Hi,

Thanks for letting us join your forums!

A question we have concerns snookering.

When we have potted a red ball..is it ok for us while aiming for the coloured ball to deliberately not pot it but rather try to just snooker our opponent.

eg. We can often just gently hide the cue ball behind the coloured ball...is this ok or is this some form of bad sportmanship? What is the bench mark for what is and isn't ok in these snookering opportunities...whilst aiming for the coloured balls.

Thanks for any help!

Matt and Jonathan

[dannyd0g]

Hi,

Thanks for letting us join your forums!

A question we have concerns snookering.

When we have potted a red ball..is it ok for us while aiming for the coloured ball to deliberately not pot it but rather try to just snooker our opponent.

eg. We can often just gently hide the cue ball behind the coloured ball...is this ok or is this some form of bad sportmanship? What is the bench mark for what is and isn't ok in these snookering opportunities...whilst aiming for the coloured balls.

Thanks for any help!

Matt and Jonathan

Its perfectly within the rules to lay snookers behind the colours like this, and you are entitled to do it whenever you choose to......However it could be considered negative or even unsporting if you do this too much...for example turning down good scoring opportunities jus to lay a snooker could be considered unsporting.

As a rough guide its best to do it only when theres not a good scoring opportunity or when you need the extra points !

[Mavoz]

Thanks

Thanks for helping explain that Dannydog...I think we'll work on the principle of doing these kinds of snookers when other good options don't present themselves...or when we can do it 'tastefully'...and in a sporting snookerish way...ie. not too much 'mongrel' about it! There does seem to be a bit of a fine line in deciding what is justifiable in some of these shots.

Anyway we kind of figure the game is called "Snooker"..so it must be ok for an element of "Snookerish" behaviour in there somewhere! Thanks again.

[dantuck_7]

We can often just gently hide the cue ball behind the coloured ball...

Whatever you do make sure you don't play the shot too gentle (as I have done a couple of times!!) because you will give your opponent some extra points, a free ball or he/she could get you to play again.

[MrRottweiler]

Remember its a foul to snooker behind a nominated free ball. This always catches me out.

[Wity]

"However it could be considered negative or even unsporting if you do this too much...for example turning down good scoring opportunities jus to lay a snooker could be considered unsporting."


Where the heck did you get that from? I've never heard such crap before.

Playing a snooker in snooker can be unsporting. bah!

[dannyd0g]

"However it could be considered negative or even unsporting if you do this too much...for example turning down good scoring opportunities jus to lay a snooker could be considered unsporting."


Where the heck did you get that from? I've never heard such crap before.

Playing a snooker in snooker can be unsporting. bah!

LOL. Say what you think Wity, dont hold back.

Ok then i shall attempt to back up my point with some examples - say if your opponent kept on turning down pots and break making opportunities all the time prefering to lay snookers - would you not soon start to find this annoying ? Personally i would consider it very unsporting and negative.

If a professional player was to do it he would certainly be in for a lot of flack. For example, near the end of his career Terry Griffiths seem to loose all his confidence, and became extremely negative, turning down anything but the most guarenteed simple pots, prefering to lay snookers/play safe all the time. Now he wasnt doing it deliberately to frustate his opponents or the crowd, but I know as a viewer at home he became unwatchable for me, and i can imagine what it must have felt like for his opponents.

A better example: how about Ronnie's grudge match against Robidoux. Robidoux carried on playing in a frame when he needed about 10 snookers. When Ronnie finally got very easy chances to pot and win the frame, he turned them down, just in order to prove a point and play his own snookers. Is that pefectly sporting and acceptable then ? I think not.

[Wity]

Sorry Danny I dont mean to be offensive but how else can I say I think your talking crap?

The biggest gripe I have with it is you telling a new comer to the game it can be considered unsporting. He's already thinking playing a snooker is a bit sneaky and may well be reluctant to because of what others think of him. That is totally wrong. Play by the rules and bollocks to all else is the golden rule no matter what the game. If those in power consider it detremental to the game it's up to them to rewrite the rules. (As they have done in billiards and in pool)

If your opponent gets narked about it that's his problem not yours and if it affects his game then exploit it and do it all the more. It's not unsporting, or ungentlemanly conduct it's part of the game akin to finding out a boxer drops his guard after every body shot or your opponent at tennis has a weak backhand whatever.

Most new players are happy to string together 2 shots 3 will put a smile on their face and 4 will have them taking home a bunch of flowers for her indoors, (Hell I'd probably still be married if I won a few more games ) So even if the balls were in the perfect position for a high scoring break a new player in fact any player has to think which shot is going to get him the most points every single time. If that means playing the snooker, then go for it, smile at your opponent, note his reaction but apologise as some do? Never!


Re your examples,

A: No I would not find it even slightly annoying. I'm quite used to it and apprecieate it actually, as it's a typical tactic in pool with the rules we play to round here and it often bleeds over into snooker too.

B:Personally I enjoy watching a hour long frame with nothing but safety and snookers far more than a 147 break. I know what your thinking, but such a scrappy game amongst pros is magic for me.

C: Dont remember that one but it sounds as it was entertaining.

Mavoz.. If your playing against someone at your own level and as I imagine your best break to date is under say 40. Dont ever do what the pros do. By which i mean concede a game because you need 3 or more snookers with say only the colours left on the table. Play for them snookers mate and if anyone says it's unsporting tell em to [insert your best ozzie swearwords ] off At that level getting the snookers is a good possibility.

[dantuck_7]

I'll have to slightly agree with Wity on this one. There are times when I find going for snookers very worthwhile. Maybe there is a godd likelihood of getting a free ball or more points in fouls than just say yellow to brown.

Or it could just be to slow your opponent down - get him/her out a good potting streak they were having.

Snookers are definitely part of the tactics of the game. There has to be a balanced approach to this. But, don't avoid them altogether as its very useful to able to get a few and pull the frame back.

I remember playing a league match (best of 3). My opponent had won the frame and I needed two snookers with pink and black left. It looked very unlikely.... I managed to get a good snooker and from the foul had a possible shot to leave the white behind the black. It didn't quite come off - but it definitely frightened my opponent. I reckon so anyway! Went on to win the decider.

[dannyd0g]

Thanks for your reply Wity. It seems to be one of your specialities to present the opposite point of view. Please dont take that as a criticsm as I welcome this. As you say its better for Mavos that someone has presented the opposite point of view in this thread.

Personally i prefer the open attacking potting game. Although as you rightly say this is not the only way to play. Mavos will probably encounter snooker players and fans of both the attacking and defensive styles if i can put it that way.

I guess as in many things in life, the best way is the middle way. Where you neither go for all pots nor always go for laying snookers. It will come from experience of knowledge of personal strengths and weaknesses when it is appropriate to go for a pot, or when it is best to lay a snooker.

I have only ever played the game to a 'friendly local' level, and all i can say is that from my personal experience at this level there seems to be a feeling of "boo hiss thats nasty" if you lay snookers rather than taking on gettable pots. At any more serious or competitive level than this, then Wity would be totally correct - the object of the game is to win by scoring more points than your opponent - regardless how its done.

[dantuck_7]

I remember playing a pool match a year or so ago - we had both potted 5/6 reds/yellows - and my oppponent had an easy snooker to virtually win the game.

I was quite surprised when he went for a double instead and left me in. His response was that he didn't play snookers.

Maybe where you are from has something to do with this?

[Wity]

It seems to be one of your specialities to present the opposite point of view.

LOL Ever seen a tattoo made to look like a label with the words "Made in ...."
well I've one simlar, never been tatooed in my life but apparently I've one on my back I was born with .. "Arguementative ******* model # 1 "

[Q Ball]

Welcome to the forum

Q

[TheStranger]

A better example: how about Ronnie's grudge match against Robidoux. Robidoux carried on playing in a frame when he needed about 10 snookers. When Ronnie finally got very easy chances to pot and win the frame, he turned them down, just in order to prove a point and play his own snookers.

Is there footage of this out there? I'd love to see it for the pure comedy value of that frame - especially as it was years before Ronnie developed a real safety game! :snooker:

[Monique]

There was a footage on youtube but it seems it has disappeared. Not only is Ronnie turning down easy pots but he's playing exclusively left handed. Robidoux is litteraly fuming and Ronnie's eyes are a display in mischief ...
Yes it was unsporting from Ronnie. But it was unsporting from Robidoux in the first place ... needing so many snookers he couldn't possible expect to comeback into the frame. It was done purely to make the match last and frustrate his opponent.
And Ronnie's safety play may not have been as good as it is today, it was fairly good nonetheless. He just didn't like to play safe ... ... usually.