Alrocco.snooker secrets

[Derek P]

I think it might be time for some contribution from me. First of all I agree with Roy in that not many of us consistently hit centre-ball HOWEVER not many of us can deliver the cue consistently straight (which I believe is the real 'secret' of playing good snooker).

I even include myself bundled into that group who cannot consistently cue straight and hit my intended target, which is mostly centre-ball. I have a little test using the black ball in which I line it up straight to a top pocket with cueball about 1ft behind black and hit it with deep screw and I will get a touch of left-hand side which means of course I am NOT hitting centre-ball and in fact am cueing right-to-left and that is happening before I hit the cueball.

I have known about this problem for a few years now and even using video analysis I couldn't come up with either the reason or a correction until just yesterday. I tried everything I could think of but ended up concentrating on my grip. How I did it was I normally use the video on long blues with which I have a decent success rate even when screwing back to the yellow pocket, but this time I decided to video myself while potting the black with power and attempting to hit centre-ball. EVERY FREAKIN' TIME I potted the black fine but the cueball had left-hand side on it when hitting the cushion.

Then I analysed the video and found to my disbelief and surprise I was lifting my head very, very slightly on the backswing and it was virtually ALL the time. I took a very close look at where I struck the cueball and sure enough it was just slightly off-centre to the left. OK, so now I had the root cause but how do I correct movement on the shot? The solution is relatively simple, all I had to do was to STOP MOVING or keep EFFING STILL.

Well, I had a few frames and concentrated on locking my upper body SUPER STILL and I found I have again started making a lot more pots than I have been doing these past 3 years or so. One problem I have is I have always had a short backswing and I think this head movement was a self-defeating way to get more power. I have now lengthened my backswing a bit and concentrate on staying still, however I have also found that I've been unconsciously compensating for this LH side because I've been doing it for so long.

In opposition to Roy's method I can now prove (using the black and side cushion) that I can hit centre-ball consistently as there is no side on the cueball when it comes back to the cushion. I disagree with using side all the time and it's my OPINION that side should only be used when necessary to get position where straight centre-ball stun, screw or top will not get it for you. One great example is the break-off shot where you have to use side to get around the blue ball and for those of you who desbelieve me please note how many times you've seen even the pros on TV go wrong the the break-off shot when at their level they shouldn't go wrong at all and the cueball should end up in the exact same spot all the time or damn close to it but it almost never does (I have seen Mark Selby manage that during one match but the next match he was missing and I suspect either different table or new cloth).

My question for everyone is, if even me who has been playing for years can screw up centre-ball striking like this and since I'm supposed to be a Master Coach and couldn't figure it out then what chance does the average player who is only getting 30 breaks have unless he concentrated in the first place, on DELIVERING THE CUE STRAIGHT. End of rant.

Terry,

I agree with everything you have said however I would maybe add that screwing the black off the cushion with deep screw is a moderate pace shot with a little bit of a problem involved that you need to get out the way of the white hence why your perhaps lifting early on that shot too, as you have said also a need to lengthen up the backswing if your used to playing stun shots around the black with less power.

I would imagine someone at your level if you were to video yourself playing the same shot on the black but just stunning it dead or stroking it through probably would hardly ever put enough unintentional side on the ball to miss the pot or throw the white off line of position. I think it's this kind of shot which we most frequently use in snooker soft to medium pace stun/stroke/screw shot for position over a 4-6ft range and if you havent given the time to developing your cueing like you have and you would teach your students to do then folk are always gonna have a problem potting balls from 'one day to the next readjusting' as Roy himself says. To me the method of potting with side is nonsense and you can't justify it by saying none of us can hit true centre ball cos again i agree with that but on 80% of the shots in snooker you only need to be on the sweet spot of centre and you'll pot it clean anyway.

[chrisg]

Inside the book/video of Roy's system the very first thing mentioned is you need a nice straight cue action to do this first I've read his book on How to cue like a pro as well! Well worth reading!. This hones my point.

Any "system" requires straight cueing whether it be Roy's Nic's or Steve Feeney's SightRight.

If you're finding a system is not working, then it may well be because you're not cueing the ball straight on delivery.

The last 2 weeks I've been practicing dead straight pots because it's the worst part of my game and I've found for me, it's def not aiming that's the problem it's cue delivery!



I think Nic B mentions in one of his tips that a high percentage of people who go to visit him in Milton Keynes have a "cueing" issue, NOT an aiming issue.

Which pretty much says it all!

[alrocco]

I agree with what you say about the sweet spot, but I am trying to improve the players who are struggling with the game, if you are a talented player and able to get your cb within a foot of next ball, you only have to strike as near centre as possible because the distance between the balls makes little difference, but over that distance watch out. The farther you are away from object ball the bigger the error. So as you know it is not only potting the ball but getting the cb into a good position for the next shot and so on. I am afraid there is not enough practice in putting cb where you need it to be.

[Derek P]

I agree with what you say about the sweet spot, but I am trying to improve the players who are struggling with the game, if you are a talented player and able to get your cb within a foot of next ball, you only have to strike as near centre as possible because the distance between the balls makes little difference, but over that distance watch out. The farther you are away from object ball the bigger the error. So as you know it is not only potting the ball but getting the cb into a good position for the next shot and so on. I am afraid there is not enough practice in putting cb where you need it to be.

Yeah but to be fair mate that is what centre striking and some consideration of the pace of shot will give you.
Nic Barrows system of 1-10 on the height of the white and as he says being 'ruthless' with your application with that is the easiest way to improve your cue ball control. Adding in the power varation from P1-10 and again you have a system of numbers and variables which will give you the neccessary feedback to get your white within a foot of every pot on the correct angle to get to your next one the most prolific break buildering in the game of snooker are absolute masters of this but it doesnt mean a decent amatuer player who is looking to improve their game cannot learn from the same methods they will never reach the same profiency but the sound logic in getting from one ball to the next still applies. Typical example of the greatest you only need to look at the centurty tally. Ding, Robertson, Ronnie for example the white never goes anywhere but a foot from the next ball so yeah that is important but I don't see side every really coming into that except on key shots that angles need to be manufactured ronnie probably has his own little idiosyncratic ways hes developed using a flick of side here and there cos he doenst want to rely purely on stun cos it would be too much pace or a ball is in the way for the angle but this is pretty advanced stuff for a club player who hasnt made a 50 yet it should all be plain ball striking for them stun/screw/stroke simple

[alrocco]

As for side I think most of you are thinking of extreme side of which is only played by really advanced players, when I talk or teach about side I am only talking about a quarter of a tip or less off centre striking hardly enough to make any difference but cb will ALWAYS react the same way. So if it reacts the same way your aiming point will ALWAYS be hit providing your cue action is straight, and body and head remain still, in other words try to address from the elbow only.Roy of Snooker Secrets.

[alrocco]

If it was that easy we would all be great. An awful lot yet to be learnt I'm afraid.

[Derek P]

If it was that easy we would all be great. An awful lot yet to be learnt I'm afraid.

no offence Roy but you contradict your ‘method’ the more you talk about it. So you aim with side but over short distance you accept that there is a sweet spot of centre so why you aiming off the line or the shot then. Mate it’s like your driving a car on the wrong side of the road and saying it’s still gonna get you to the same destination it makes no sense. Hit the white in the middle it will go the same way unless there is reason to add the side then yeah add it cos it’s useful on some shots and note I said SOME.

[alrocco]

Still don't get it do you.

[markz]

Still don't get it do you.

Anymore YouTube videos planned Roy or maybe help the guys on the coaching section of the forum?

[OmaMiesta]

Hi Roy, I recently read that you "guided" Cliff Thorburn to win the 1980 WC after a chance meeting in Blackpool, apparently he was striking the left side of the cueball, anyway as the story goes, after one session with yourself he went and "toppled top 10 player John Parrott". This is seen as a testament to your coaching and instant results, of course there's a problem with this story...
Presuming your encounter with Cliff was in 1980 , this would make JP only 15 years old, he didn't turn pro until 1983 and it was several years later before he entered the top 10 rankings.
Something doesn't add up here Roy, any chance you can clarify??

Knowing Cliff quite well I can attest to the "adding left side" on every shot part of the story. Dunno bout the rest

[alrocco]

Hi, have already explained that story, I DID NOT coach Cliff at that time, it was later on when he was having some bad results that I met him at Blackpool whilst I was with Paul Wykes for the qualifiers, he was on the next table to wher Paul and I were working, he overheard me, came over and asked me if I could have a look at him as he was having troubles, of course I obliged and sorted him out to his huge delight, and from there went on to beat John, who quoted after the match, why did you save that for me, I have not seen you play like that for a long time. Cliff when interviewed after by the Sunday Times put it down to my helping him, naming me in the process. Hope that clears that up, but would also like to add that Paul Wykes who I was with for eighteen months rose in the rankings from 146 to number 43 in the world. Roy of Snooker Secrets.

[alrocco]

If you know Cliff well, please ask him if you want to know the rest. Roy of Snooker Secrets

[alrocco]

Any time you would like help, just ask. Would be pleased to put you straight. Roy of Snooker Secrets.

[mick farrell]

Hi, have already explained that story, I DID NOT coach Cliff at that time, it was later on when he was having some bad results that I met him at Blackpool whilst I was with Paul Wykes for the qualifiers, he was on the next table to wher Paul and I were working, he overheard me, came over and asked me if I could have a look at him as he was having troubles, of course I obliged and sorted him out to his huge delight, and from there went on to beat John, who quoted after the match, why did you save that for me, I have not seen you play like that for a long time. Cliff when interviewed after by the Sunday Times put it down to my helping him, naming me in the process. Hope that clears that up, but would also like to add that Paul Wykes who I was with for eighteen months rose in the rankings from 146 to number 43 in the world. Roy of Snooker Secrets.

I remember some of the above about Cliff receiving help being written about in Snooker Scene in 1992 Roy.

[golferson123]

its very interesting this playing with side when not needed ect, but tables and cloths react very differently to side spin how could you build a game on this? ps ALL tables play the same with middle ball