Help fo a total novice

[Mossberg]

Hi Folks,

I am just starting with snooker even though I am more senior in years. I really only play at my local social club with some friends who have been playing for a while, so its a bit embarrassing when I have a match with them at the moment.

I would like to improve my game as I am sure it would make it more enjoyable for me, but also for them.

To help me start improving I wonder if you guys could help point me in the right direction, so here are a few questions;

Cue: My friend has given me a cue but I feel it may be a bit small for me. The cue is a two piece Ronnie O’Sullivan Supapro and is 57 1/2” long. I am just over 6’3” and the height to the top of my shoulder is 63” I am sure I have read somewhere that the cue should come to your shoulder – is this correct? If it is, where could I get a cue the right (or at least better) length at a reasonable price.

The next thing is how can I learn to play better. I know the ideal thing would be to take some lessons, but I would rather go for a less expensive approach to start with. I have just watched a youtube video of Terry Griffiths (I think) showing some basic techniques and I can already see some things I just didn’t have a clue about – for instance I did not even know how to form a basic bridge!! If you guys could give me an idea of what book I can read that is suitable for a novice it would be much appreciated. Also perhaps a link to some youtube videos or similar.

I know there is no substitute for practice, but I also know that if you practice doing something incorrectly you just become better at doing it incorrectly!

Any other hints and tips would be appreciated.

Many thanks.

Mick

[Zelig]

Hi Mick,

There are several coaches explaining the basics on YouTube for free. Depending on your personal needs and tastes you may prefer one or another, but my own favourites are Barry Stark, Steve Barton and Break from Life (in no particular order, they are all insightful and competent). I am sure others exist (and hope no-one gets offended here!), which one works best for you really depends on your needs.

Good luck!

[Mossberg]

Many thanks for that, I will look at those.

[Steve748]

This is quite an interesting read...it is a few decades old but the info does not get old..... well maybe tips, chalk and tip sizes have changed a bit

[Nifty50]

This is quite an interesting read...it is a few decades old but the info does not get old..... well maybe tips, chalk and tip sizes have changed a bit

I bought this book back in the 1980's when Steve Davis was dominant. Still got it but hardly ever refer to it. Nowadays I prefer u-tube to pick up coaching tips. Really like the Barton Snooker videos and Barry Stark is a favourite of mine having had a couple of face to face tips from him. Also looked at Neil Maxman.

[vmax]

Hi Folks,

I am just starting with snooker even though I am more senior in years. I really only play at my local social club with some friends who have been playing for a while, so its a bit embarrassing when I have a match with them at the moment.

I would like to improve my game as I am sure it would make it more enjoyable for me, but also for them.

To help me start improving I wonder if you guys could help point me in the right direction, so here are a few questions;

Cue: My friend has given me a cue but I feel it may be a bit small for me. The cue is a two piece Ronnie O’Sullivan Supapro and is 57 1/2” long. I am just over 6’3” and the height to the top of my shoulder is 63” I am sure I have read somewhere that the cue should come to your shoulder – is this correct? If it is, where could I get a cue the right (or at least better) length at a reasonable price.

The next thing is how can I learn to play better. I know the ideal thing would be to take some lessons, but I would rather go for a less expensive approach to start with. I have just watched a youtube video of Terry Griffiths (I think) showing some basic techniques and I can already see some things I just didn’t have a clue about – for instance I did not even know how to form a basic bridge!! If you guys could give me an idea of what book I can read that is suitable for a novice it would be much appreciated. Also perhaps a link to some youtube videos or similar.

I know there is no substitute for practice, but I also know that if you practice doing something incorrectly you just become better at doing it incorrectly!

Any other hints and tips would be appreciated.

Many thanks.

Mick

The cue doesn't need to come exactly to your shoulder but within an inch of it makes for a better more relaxed stance and cue action that isn't restricted. I've got a 61.5 inch 3/4 that will suit you, ash shaft with wenge butt and I'm wanting £150 inc postage.

http://www.thesnookerforum.co.uk/boa...workshop/page9

post number 85 for pictures. btw description says 60.5 inches but it's actually 61.5 inches, my mistake.

[Shockerz]

I like this thread as it's something we've been discussing at the club a few times lately.

My personal opinion is the length obviously depends on the stance you adopt, is it the old Joe Davis straight bridge arm or the more modern bent arm method.

Years ago (80's) I was always told the cue should be at least 1" below my shoulder height to fit the right cue stance.

Nowadays I would say this:

1) A long term player with a settled stance that isn't going to change should take into consideration:

a) Bent or straight bridge arm (bent bridge arm with other parts of the stance should dictate a shorter cue generally). I am 6ft2" and had a 60" cue. I bent my bridge arm a lot for a while and with all other stance characteristics uniform e.g.

Straight trailing leg
The cue an inch out the back of my hand
Vertical grip hand at address
Correct length from bridge hand to cue tip
4 Points of contact

etc etc etc I ended up with a 57" cue

I'm settled on a 58" cue with a more compact stance and bent bridge arm and this is fine. A longer cue with this stance would either leave too much cue trailing my grip hand or leave my bridge hand too far from the cue ball.



2) A beginner or improver should get the stance agreed with a coach and then go from there as you may change as you develop.


Just my thoughts but have seen too many people try and make their stance fit the cue which can lead to a cue change after lessons or game improvement.

Just my opinion but I do seem to sell a cue every other week to someone who has a cue that doesn't fit their stance!

[Nifty50]

Shockerz, good post. Get a bit fed up with people telling beginners that the cue has to come up to their shoulder. As you've pointed out there's a whole lot more to consider which is easily figured out if you get the correct advice.
Arm bent or straight is important. Joe Davis advocated that the arm had to be straight but Frank Callan disagreed. Nowadays the consensus is you do whats most comfortable.
Not everyones arms are the same length and not everyone has exactly the same number of inches through the bridge.

[vmax]

Ronnie says he was in his very best form when he was 14 years old. He had yet to grow to his full height and was using a standard length cue so he had a longer bridge and his cue arm was behind the vertical.
As he's grown he's had to adapt his technique to fit the standard length cues he has always used, his bridge is shorter and his cue arm is on the vertical instead of slightly behind it.
His upper arm drop from the shoulder is right on the edge of coming into play a tad before the strike, when he was 14 that wasn't the case as his cue arm was behind the vertical so the strike was always before the upper arm drop and everything was natural.

This is what I base my calculations on, Neil Robertson uses a 59 inch cue and his cue arm is slightly behind the vertical as well. I have yet to see a short pro player who has their cue arm right on the vertical like the taller players do, and it's the taller players who are more prone to playing a shoulder shot if they use a cue that's too short for them.

You can argue bent arm vs straight arm is personal choice, but bent arm for the taller player using a short cue is mainly down to needing to retract the bridge arm in order to have enough cue over the thumb for a long enough backswing. With a longer cue you don't need to.
I will also argue that the taller player using a short cue has more trouble getting his head up in a place where he can see the object ball at distance because he has to bend down further. Also more cue in sight along the line of aim leads to more accuracy, using the rest is a perfect example as you can clearly put the whole of the cue on the line of aim as you can see the whole of the cue, problems with the rest are purely down to a different delivery from the hand and arm.

All you short arses can work this all out yourselves by holding your standard length cues four inches from the end and try to sight normally on a table thats ten inches lower than a snooker table, then you'll know the problems we taller blokes have.
No wonder Selby has neck and back problems.

[Shockerz]

Ronnie says he was in his very best form when he was 14 years old. He had yet to grow to his full height and was using a standard length cue so he had a longer bridge and his cue arm was behind the vertical.
As he's grown he's had to adapt his technique to fit the standard length cues he has always used, his bridge is shorter and his cue arm is on the vertical instead of slightly behind it.
His upper arm drop from the shoulder is right on the edge of coming into play a tad before the strike, when he was 14 that wasn't the case as his cue arm was behind the vertical so the strike was always before the upper arm drop and everything was natural.

This is what I base my calculations on, Neil Robertson uses a 59 inch cue and his cue arm is slightly behind the vertical as well. I have yet to see a short pro player who has their cue arm right on the vertical like the taller players do, and it's the taller players who are more prone to playing a shoulder shot if they use a cue that's too short for them.

You can argue bent arm vs straight arm is personal choice, but bent arm for the taller player using a short cue is mainly down to needing to retract the bridge arm in order to have enough cue over the thumb for a long enough backswing. With a longer cue you don't need to.
I will also argue that the taller player using a short cue has more trouble getting his head up in a place where he can see the object ball at distance because he has to bend down further. Also more cue in sight along the line of aim leads to more accuracy, using the rest is a perfect example as you can clearly put the whole of the cue on the line of aim as you can see the whole of the cue, problems with the rest are purely down to a different delivery from the hand and arm.

All you short arses can work this all out yourselves by holding your standard length cues four inches from the end and try to sight normally on a table thats ten inches lower than a snooker table, then you'll know the problems we taller blokes have.
No wonder Selby has neck and back problems.

Vmax

It is a good debate and one myself and a few players had recently.

There are of course many reasons why people would stray from the considered norm when choosing a cue. One reason for me was I had a tremor when I took my grip hand too far back but it encouraged me to then get the power by pushing all the way down the line of the shot.

So, measurements from the 'v' of my bridge hand to the cue ball are exactly the same as with a longer cue, the only difference is my arm is bent more to make a more compact stance but with a shorter cue; every other standard measurement e.g. vertical grip hand is still correct, just with a compact stance.

Not for everyone though.

[Mossberg]

btw description says 60.5 inches but it's actually 61.5 inches, my mistake.

Hi Vmax, where are you based, and is the cue suitable for an extension?

[Mossberg]

Guys,

Thank you very much for your input, it is greatly appreciated. I know with anything, the best item is the one that suits you and you play best with - what other people say can never override this.


I looked at the club to see if there were any longer cues to pick up and try, but unfortunately they were all standard length.

[vmax]

Hi Vmax, where are you based, and is the cue suitable for an extension?

It has a mini butt and at your height I doubt you'd need anything longer very often, also you need to think about how it all will fit into a case. I can reach down to the pink spot with my 61 inch cue (from the baulk end) and I'm six two, long arms though.
I'm in Barnstaple north devon.