2021 Gibraltar Open

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So... surprise: no suprise. Three in a row now? Poor Jack.

Jack stated the only way he can beat Trump is playing his A game and Trump having an off day. If he believes trump must have an off day well he's beated himself before he hits a ball. If you dont believe you can beat a guy on a equal terms you lack confidence . Jack lacks confidence . He needs a bit of arrogance about himself

[ken147]

Jack stated the only way he can beat Trump is playing his A game and Trump having an off day. If he believes trump must have an off day well he's beated himself before he hits a ball. If you dont believe you can beat a guy on a equal terms you lack confidence . Jack lacks confidence . He needs a bit of arrogance about himself

Jack is definitely lacking confidence. Losing finalist in 6 tournaments and lost the last 3 to Trump.

[PatBlock]

Jack stated the only way he can beat Trump is playing his A game and Trump having an off day. If he believes trump must have an off day well he's beated himself before he hits a ball. If you dont believe you can beat a guy on a equal terms you lack confidence . Jack lacks confidence . He needs a bit of arrogance about himself

Yes I thought the same, he shows Trump too much respect to the point of fear. I wonder about Jack's general level of competitiveness, he reminds me a bit of Ding, loads of talent but no killer instinct. Hope I'm wrong.

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Yes I thought the same, he shows Trump too much respect to the point of fear. I wonder about Jack's general level of competitiveness, he reminds me a bit of Ding, loads of talent but no killer instinct. Hope I'm wrong.

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100% correct. You have to be the kind of guy in sports competition that when a guy is down you kick him repeatedly in the goolies. Steve Davis was the first of this breed in the modern era , kept the pressure on even after the frame was long won . Hendry would not talk to his competitors and remained cool and detached , another strategy to have the game half won before a ball is struck. Somebody needs to slap Jack in the face witth a wet mackerel and tell him to f**king cop himself on and get nasty.

[trains]

100% correct. You have to be the kind of guy in sports competition that when a guy is down you kick him repeatedly in the goolies. Steve Davis was the first of this breed in the modern era , kept the pressure on even after the frame was long won . Hendry would not talk to his competitors and remained cool and detached , another strategy to have the game half won before a ball is struck. Somebody needs to slap Jack in the face witth a wet mackerel and tell him to f**king cop himself on and get nasty.

i think its a case of putting things in perspective , trump is already one of the all time greats , only one world championship win so what , this is what snooker.org says about trump , ' This was Trump's 22nd ranking title, equaling Mark Williams and he is now fifth on the all-time list ' , no disrespect but this isn't graeme dott shaun murphy or bingham , and lisowski barely beat stuart carrington lu ning and fraser patrick , lots of players simply aren't as good as trump regardless of whats between their ears , perspective perspective .

[PatBlock]

....lisowski barely beat stuart carrington lu ning and fraser patrick....

Exactly. But why is that? It's certainly not for lack of talent. I think you just added weight to our point. It's not so much the losses, as the manner of those defeats coupled with his reaction to them. If you're going to beat someone at anything, you have to KNOW in your heart that you can win, if you go into a fight thinking you'll loose, then you surely will. Jack needs to get a bit nasty.

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i think its a case of putting things in perspective , trump is already one of the all time greats , only one world championship win so what , this is what snooker.org says about trump , ' This was Trump's 22nd ranking title, equaling Mark Williams and he is now fifth on the all-time list ' , no disrespect but this isn't graeme dott shaun murphy or bingham , and lisowski barely beat stuart carrington lu ning and fraser patrick , lots of players simply aren't as good as trump regardless of whats between their ears , perspective perspective .

Putting things in perspective or putting Trump on a pedestal ? Jack thinks like you , "I'm not as good as Trump" , Go for the jugular every time , do not become dismayed or lose courage if you fall a frame or two behind. Play with intelligence but think with aggression

[ken147]

Yes I thought the same, he shows Trump too much respect to the point of fear. I wonder about Jack's general level of competitiveness, he reminds me a bit of Ding, loads of talent but no killer instinct. Hope I'm wrong.

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Not quite, Ding has had the killer instinct to win 14 tournaments times. I would say you're right in terms of talent, Jack is very talented but he's missing that arrogance and self belief.

[trains]

Exactly. But why is that? It's certainly not for lack of talent. I think you just added weight to our point. It's not so much the losses, as the manner of those defeats coupled with his reaction to them. If you're going to beat someone at anything, you have to KNOW in your heart that you can win, if you go into a fight thinking you'll loose, then you surely will. Jack needs to get a bit nasty.

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0:34 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZx4ZCQUnho williams led 7 - 2 , did he start thinking he'd win then baulked and thought he'd lose , i don’t think anyone can describe williams as being soft as a player and he certainly has an incentive and rivalry with o sullivan , i think trump yesterday just happened to make less mistakes .

i don’t think there was much wrong with lisowski apart from the opening break off and missed pink in the third frame , and i think he made a very good attempt at a long red in the last frame that knocked three times and didn’t go in , will lisowski ever be as good or as successful as trump i don’t know but don’t forget when trump started becoming prominent in 2011 it was possibly only selby at his best in the china open or higgins at his best at the crucible that could possibly be compared to trump now , so thats probably lisowski’s problem as much as anything else , these best of 7’s and 11’s or 17’s 19’s in other finals whatever has there ever been anyone as consistent as trump , i think joe perry eluded to it to recently , i’m not sure , and its very difficult to beat a player who's playing near faultless snooker , matt selt did precious little wrong in the semi and still lost 4 - 1 , he didn't lack heart or belief , its just the nature of the game .

[PatBlock]

Not quite, Ding has had the killer instinct to win 14 tournaments times. I would say you're right in terms of talent, Jack is very talented but he's missing that arrogance and self belief.

I don't doubt Ding's ability, but do you not think he's underachieved overall? I think he could have dominated the game or at least won a lot more with the talent he has, if only he had a little more fire in his belly, but we've all seen his head drop time and time again. And of course he's only ever reached one WC final, which he lost and I doubt he'll ever win it now, (although I'd love him to prove me wrong).

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[PatBlock]

0:34 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZx4ZCQUnho williams led 7 - 2 , did he start thinking he'd win then baulked and thought he'd lose , i don’t think anyone can describe williams as being soft as a player and he certainly has an incentive and rivalry with o sullivan , i think trump yesterday just happened to make less mistakes .

Williams was playing Ronnie there and, like many, he has a problem beating him, Trump is very good, but he's no ROS, IMO there is a huge gulf between the two. Williams won the first of his 3 WCs when he was 4 years younger than Jack, so no, I would never doubt his heart.

i don’t think there was much wrong with lisowski apart from the opening break off and missed pink in the third frame , and i think he made a very good attempt at a long red in the last frame that knocked three times and didn’t go in , will lisowski ever be as good or as successful as trump i don’t know but don’t forget when trump started becoming prominent in 2011 it was possibly only selby at his best in the china open or higgins at his best at the crucible that could possibly be compared to trump now , so thats probably lisowski’s problem as much as anything else , these best of 7’s and 11’s or 17’s 19’s in other finals whatever has there ever been anyone as consistent as trump , i think joe perry eluded to it to recently , i’m not sure , and its very difficult to beat a player who's playing near faultless snooker , matt selt did precious little wrong in the semi and still lost 4 - 1 , he didn't lack heart or belief , its just the nature of the game .

Selt had chances but blew them, Trump won only 1 frame with 1 visit in their match. Ersenbacher had loads of chances but was pants. Trump is well beatable if you put him under pressure by taking advantage of his mistakes, which IMO he still makes quite a lot of, just ask Hossein Vafaei. Back to Jack. Just watch him, look at his body language, listen to what he says, he doubts himself and that needs to change.

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[trains]

Williams was playing Ronnie there and, like many, he has a problem beating him, Trump is very good, but he's no ROS, IMO there is a huge gulf between the two. Williams won the first of his 3 WCs when he was 4 years younger than Jack, so no, I would never doubt his heart.



Selt had chances but blew them, Trump won only 1 frame with 1 visit in their match. Ersenbacher had loads of chances but was pants. Trump is well beatable if you put him under pressure by taking advantage of his mistakes, which IMO he still makes quite a lot of, just ask Hossein Vafaei. Back to Jack. Just watch him, look at his body language, listen to what he says, he doubts himself and that needs to change.

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' Trump is very good but he's no ROS , IMO there is a huge gulf between the two. '
let's use a ball park starting point of their head to heads from 2011 til now , I'm not trying to be selective but I think ten years and 2021 is reasonable enough given that trump only turned pro in 2005 , trump leads 12 - 10 , he's also 17 - 6 vs Williams since then , Williams who thinks o Sullivan cost him at least one maybe two world titles .

The reason hossein vafaei beat trump is because he played very well , the reason he lost to mark allen over the weekend is because he didn't play well enough , who has been more difficult to beat and consistent over a two year period in the crucible era than trump over the last two years , do you think mark Williams of 2003 would beat trump of 2021 , ' putting him under pressure ' is a phrase hendry was quoted about beating o Sullivan but let's say if 2021 Trump Selby and Robertson were in hendry' or o Sullivan's half of the crucible draw in 99 or 02 do you think hendry would still meet o Sullivan in the semi's .

this reminds me of white vs hendry in the 90's , just because white may have been good to watch it doesn't mean he should have won a world title , just because lisowski's good to watch it doesn't mean he should be as equally exceptionally as consistent as trump , come to think of it every player falls short compared to trump when it comes to consistency , it's just trumps consistency that should be applauded , when was the last time john Higgins made three finals like lisowski in a season .

[PatBlock]

let's use a ball park starting point of their head to heads from 2011 til now , I'm not trying to be selective but I think ten years and 2021 is reasonable enough given that trump only turned pro in 2005 , trump leads 12 - 10 , he's also 17 - 6 vs Williams since then , Williams who thinks o Sullivan cost him at least one maybe two world titles .

Well, you are being a bit selective, yes. Trump is 15 years younger than ROS and MJW so he should have the edge, 12 - 10 is very respectable for ROS considering how good trump is and their age gap. If they were the same age and came through together, I reckon Ronnie would batter Trump hands down.

The reason hossein vafaei beat trump is because he played very well , the reason he lost to mark allen over the weekend is because he didn't play well enough..

You make it sound like Vafaei battered him with ton after ton. In fact neither player won a frame in one visit, despite all the chances Trump only managed 2 breaks above 50 and vafaei only 1.

who has been more difficult to beat and consistent over a two year period in the crucible era than trump over the last two years ,

Hendry, 6 WCs in 7 years for starters, is pretty consistent. But again you're being picky with your timeframe, and I'd say the standard hasn't been generally that great recently anyway.

do you think mark Williams of 2003 would beat trump of 2021

Yes

putting him under pressure ' is a phrase hendry was quoted about beating o Sullivan but let's say if 2021 Trump Selby and Robertson were in hendry' or o Sullivan's half of the crucible draw in 99 or 02 do you think hendry would still meet o Sullivan in the semi's .

I wouldn't bet against it.

this reminds me of white vs hendry in the 90's , just because white may have been good to watch it doesn't mean he should have won a world title , just because lisowski's good to watch it doesn't mean he should be as equally exceptionally as consistent as trump , come to think of it every player falls short compared to trump when it comes to consistency , it's just trumps consistency that should be applauded , when was the last time john Higgins made three finals like lisowski in a season .

I normally avoid these mixing of eras discussions because things are so different now, more tournaments with less frames etc. so the stats become kind of meaningless. Trump has been consistently good recently yes, but the rest of the big boys have been consistently lacking, and considering his age, I think Ronnie's recent consistency deserves more applause than Judd's. Just my opinion though.

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[trains]

Well, you are being a bit selective, yes. Trump is 15 years younger than ROS and MJW so he should have the edge, 12 - 10 is very respectable for ROS considering how good trump is and their age gap. If they were the same age and came through together, I reckon Ronnie would batter Trump hands down.



You make it sound like Vafaei battered him with ton after ton. In fact neither player won a frame in one visit, despite all the chances Trump only managed 2 breaks above 50 and vafaei only 1.



Hendry, 6 WCs in 7 years for starters, is pretty consistent. But again you're being picky with your timeframe, and I'd say the standard hasn't been generally that great recently anyway.


Yes



I wouldn't bet against it.



I normally avoid these mixing of eras discussions because things are so different now, more tournaments with less frames etc. so the stats become kind of meaningless. Trump has been consistently good recently yes, but the rest of the big boys have been consistently lacking, and considering his age, I think Ronnie's recent consistency deserves more applause than Judd's. Just my opinion though.

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we could post back and forth for hours , i find if funny that i think you've disagreed with everything i've written here , anyway , shall we agree to leave on i think your assertion ? that mark williams didn't have a complex in the first nine frames against o sullivan at the crucible last august but then suddenly developed the jack lisowski inferiority complex , and just to add i'm being picky with a timeframe ? that includes o sullivan winning three world championships and being runner up in another

i remember i had this conversation with you years ago and asked you did you watch every frame of i think hendry's 1990 crucible , you never answered , its funny the things you remember when you need to

[PatBlock]

Sorry trains, probably my fault but I'm having a little difficulty joining the dots of some of your points here.

i remember i had this conversation with you years ago and asked you did you watch every frame of i think hendry's 1990 crucible , you never answered , its funny the things you remember when you need to

Again, I'm not sure of your point here. I don't remember the conversation or whether I watched every frame, possibly not, it was a pretty tumultuous time for me that year and 30+ years ago, I clearly don't have as good a memory as you.

I wish we were having this chat face to face over a pint, think it might make a bit more sense to me.

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