2021 World Championships

[JimMalone]

1990 semis: Steve Davis (1), John Parrot (2), Stephen Hendry (3), Jimmy White (4) ... hard to beat line up

And I think still in terms of quality players the 1999 semifinals, which also were #1, #2, #3, #5 are hard to beat: John Higgins, Stephen Hendry, Ronnie O'Sullivan, Mark Williams.
Which would turn out to be four players with each at least three world titles and together won 20 (!) world titles as of now.

[trains]

And I think still in terms of quality players the 1999 semifinals, which also were #1, #2, #3, #5 are hard to beat: John Higgins, Stephen Hendry, Ronnie O'Sullivan, Mark Williams.
Which would turn out to be four players with each at least three world titles and together won 20 (!) world titles as of now.

but at the time 99 I'd say with the exception of hendry the other three are all better players now than they were then , this declining with age narrative has only permeated through the media because players like Dennis Taylor and Doug mountjoy weren't that good anyway , and Matthew Stevens is a good indicator of 99 too , he made the 99 crucible semi and led Williams in the final the following year 13 - 7 , you either improve or get left behind and he hasn't improved enough like those other three , and of course other players have passed him by too
edit got 99 mixed up with 2001 where Stevens narrowly lost to higgins

[Mark187187]

And I think still in terms of quality players the 1999 semifinals, which also were #1, #2, #3, #5 are hard to beat: John Higgins, Stephen Hendry, Ronnie O'Sullivan, Mark Williams.
Which would turn out to be four players with each at least three world titles and together won 20 (!) world titles as of now.

2011 was the strongest I can think of more recently. Judd Trump and Ding both played superbly in their Semi, and Higgins vs Williams was high quality too and went close.

[Odrl]

but at the time 99 I'd say with the exception of hendry the other three are all better players now than they were then , this declining with age narrative has only permeated through the media because players like Dennis Taylor and Doug mountjoy weren't that good anyway , and Matthew Stevens is a good indicator of 99 too , he made the 99 crucible semi and led Williams in the final the following year 13 - 7 , you either improve or get left behind and he hasn't improved enough like those other three , and of course other players have passed him by too
edit got 99 mixed up with 2001 where Stevens narrowly lost to higgins

I seriously doubt Higgins, Williams or O'Sullivan are better now than they were in 1999. They were really sharp at the time, whereas now they all take their snooker a lot more casually and are just happy to win the occasional tournament.

[trains]

I seriously doubt Higgins, Williams or O'Sullivan are better now than they were in 1999. They were really sharp at the time, whereas now they all take their snooker a lot more casually and are just happy to win the occasional tournament.

i dont know if you get the bbc in your location but steve davis over the weekend or just before said that if you're the best player nowadays then you're the best player of all time , of course that doesnt include whats on a players resume eg how many ranking titles or world championships a player has but in terms of the product playing on the table i do strongly agree with him , put 2021 selby or trump in the 99 crucible and i'd be surprised if they wouldnt win it , and i was a very keen viewer then too

[Mark187187]

I seriously doubt Higgins, Williams or O'Sullivan are better now than they were in 1999. They were really sharp at the time, whereas now they all take their snooker a lot more casually and are just happy to win the occasional tournament.

Agree with this. Mark William's A game now is arguably better since he did the sight right thing, but other than the last few months, he hasn't really put in much effort since he won his 3rd world title. Ronnie has always been erratic, but he's even more so now, and he throws in a lot more careless misses now, even when he's playing well. I used to actually get annoyed watching Ronnie, because when he was flowing you knew he just wasn't going to miss anything.

Higgins has probably seen his form drop off more than the other 2. He's great at times, but he has way more dodgy performances than he did 10 or even 20 years ago. All still great players, but all past their peak other than in patches.

[JimMalone]

I seriously doubt Higgins, Williams or O'Sullivan are better now than they were in 1999. They were really sharp at the time, whereas now they all take their snooker a lot more casually and are just happy to win the occasional tournament.

Yeah, I agree about this.

Especially since you always need to set this kind of discussion into relation to their time. And in 1999 those four were very, very probably the four best players in the world. And probably by quite a distance.
I doubt you can ever say this about any other World Championship semi.
2014 and 2017 had in my eyes probably three of the best four players in the world + Hawkins, which ain't bad either.

[JimMalone]

2011 was the strongest I can think of more recently. Judd Trump and Ding both played superbly in their Semi, and Higgins vs Williams was high quality too and went close.

To me 2017 was maybe the best.
Selby that year to me was one of the very best crucible performances I ever saw, Ding was playing better than ever at the World Championship and really at the height of his game. And Higgins (though he was better in 2011), Hawkins were excellent as well.

2014 semifinals were good as well with Selby, Robertson, O'Sullivan and Hawkins. Though back then Hawkins didn't play that well.

[Odrl]

i dont know if you get the bbc in your location but steve davis over the weekend or just before said that if you're the best player nowadays then you're the best player of all time , of course that doesnt include whats on a players resume eg how many ranking titles or world championships a player has but in terms of the product playing on the table i do strongly agree with him , put 2021 selby or trump in the 99 crucible and i'd be surprised if they wouldnt win it , and i was a very keen viewer then too

I don't know, to me that just sounds like someone spouting some meaningless platitudes, without really thinking about what they are saying. O'Sullivan is widely regarded as the best player of all time but, apart from maybe some very short periods here and there, he hasn't been the best player in the world for about seven years. Sure, when you look at breaks and other stats, they look more impressive than ever, but there is some inflation there due to conditions being more favourable for breakbuilding than they were back in the day. The top players who are in their 40s or late 30s didn't magically improve their technical skill so late in their career, or at least I don't think they did.

[trains]

I don't know, to me that just sounds like someone spouting some meaningless platitudes, without really thinking about what they are saying. O'Sullivan is widely regarded as the best player of all time but, apart from maybe some very short periods here and there, he hasn't been the best player in the world for about seven years. Sure, when you look at breaks and other stats, they look more impressive than ever, but there is some inflation there due to conditions being more favourable for breakbuilding than they were back in the day. The top players who are in their 40s or late 30s didn't magically improve their technical skill so late in their career, or at least I don't think they did.

well I did say to you that I think Selby and trump would be strong for example in the 99 crucible from where this discussion began , just because o Sullivan hasn't been the best player in the world for about seven years it doesn't mean he is any lesser now than he was in 99 , and the Williams that beat Higgins over the weekend is at least as good as he was in 99 , there weren't as many top players in 99 as they are now , they've all made themselves a bit better , trust me I'm not typing any platitudes to help boost a point but I thought the same thing long before Davis said that and I don't think his knowledge or integrity is such that he feels any need to spout some meaningless platitudes , but please correct me there if he has previous traits spouting platitudes as I don't follow snooker media much

[balkend]

Its difficult to equate the playing conditions today with 25 , 35 or 45 years ago . The tables , balls, cloths, cushions and pocket cpmbinations are different. As in other sports ( the assumption is that snooker is a sport ) such as cycling , tennis etc the equipment and playing conditions have moved on . The top players are getting their game and mental approach tutored by sports psychologists . Technique is examined in detail. The abundance of big breaks and frequent 147s are an illustration of this. I dont think the game will be the better for it . Characters abounded in the golden age of snooker . Less big characters now and more factory produced players.

[Mr Snooker]

My Quarter final predictions - just for fun please feel free to add yours as well

Stuart Bingham 13 - 11 Anthony McGill (16)

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Mark Williams (12) 13 - 11 Mark Selby (4)
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Neil Robertson (3) 13-8 Kyren Wilson (6)

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Shaun Murphy (7) 13 -10 Judd Trump (2)

[Mark187187]

Been doing terribly at these so far, but here are my predictions:

Stuart Bingham 12-13 Anthony McGill

Mark Williams 10-13 Mark Selby

Neil Robertson 13-9 Kyren Wilson

Shaun Murphy 9 -13 Judd Trump

[Odrl]

well I did say to you that I think Selby and trump would be strong for example in the 99 crucible from where this discussion began , just because o Sullivan hasn't been the best player in the world for about seven years it doesn't mean he is any lesser now than he was in 99 , and the Williams that beat Higgins over the weekend is at least as good as he was in 99 , there weren't as many top players in 99 as they are now , they've all made themselves a bit better , trust me I'm not typing any platitudes to help boost a point but I thought the same thing long before Davis said that and I don't think his knowledge or integrity is such that he feels any need to spout some meaningless platitudes , but please correct me there if he has previous traits spouting platitudes as I don't follow snooker media much

I haven't listened to Davis often enough to make that judgement, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. I do think he is wrong about this one though. Trump is playing some good stuff for sure and has the results to show for it, but there are currently nine top16 players who are in their 40s or late 30s and have been there for a long time. I would say Robertson is the only player in that group that is playing his best snooker at the moment. Trump is 31, so I would expect him to stand out against competition that much older than he is. Anything else would be an anomaly, if he truly is playing some of the best snooker anyone has ever played. That said, if you put a 31-year-old Higgins in today's game, I am not sure Trump would be world number 1 right now.

[Danger Steve]

Its difficult to equate the playing conditions today with 25 , 35 or 45 years ago . The tables , balls, cloths, cushions and pocket cpmbinations are different. As in other sports ( the assumption is that snooker is a sport ) such as cycling , tennis etc the equipment and playing conditions have moved on . The top players are getting their game and mental approach tutored by sports psychologists . Technique is examined in detail. The abundance of big breaks and frequent 147s are an illustration of this. I dont think the game will be the better for it . Characters abounded in the golden age of snooker . Less big characters now and more factory produced players.

Kyren Wilson is a good example of the modern snooker robot, along with most of the Chinese players. Ok if you like watching that kinda thing!