UK Championship 2021

[Stony152]

I like to look at frames won and lost. On cuetracker it shows that this season Brecel is 93-46 which is 69% of frames won. For his career he is at 54%. So he was really having an amazing season even before the UK. By contrast O'Sullivan is at 62% for the season and 61% for his career. Trump is the only other player who is over 60% for their career.

https://cuetracker.net/statistics/ma...s-won/all-time

[DeanH]

So are you saying that the data exists but just hasn't been collated or that it's gone forever. Cuetracker is actually pretty good. They have historical matches and frames won. For the latest matches they have frame scores, average time per shot and H2H record. Of course there is snooker.org which has been my go to site for going on 20 years. But it seems like pot success is the one thing that's just not out there. I read somewhere that there is a famous 99% performance and that Brecel's 96% yesterday is barely in the top 100 all time. That there have been a number of 97% matches. I can't remember if I read that here or somewhere else. I think that % of frames won is a decent metric for ranking players, but career pot percentage would be a fascinating list to look at. Like scoring average in darts. I think it would show that the standard of play today is much higher than it was in the 80s or even 90s.

I am saying that when paid for the data is collated at some events, who has this data after I have no idea, possibly WST, but I know of no site or person with said data, could be someone/somewhere but I have no information but would like it

CueTracker- I and the others try our best "we thank you"

snooker.org - yep Herman's site is very good

[Stony152]

I think % of frames won gives you a decent list of the "best" players of all time. Not necessarily the most successful as far as winning important tournaments, but the most successful at a basic competition level.

O'Sullivan - 61.1%
Trump - 60.3%
Higgins - 59.1%
Hendry - 58.7%
Selby - 58.4%
Robertson - 57.6%
Davis - 57.4%
Williams - 57.4%
Ding - 57.1%
Bingham - 57.0%

The two things that stand out for me are that Hendry isn't higher and that Bingham is on the list. I think Hendry's late career mediocrity really brought down his number.

[Stony152]

11-20

Murphy - 56.9%
Allen - 56.8%
Maguire - 56.4%
Yan - 56.3%
K. Wilson - 56.1%
Hunter - 56.0%
Hawkins - 56.0%
Lee - 55.9%
Xiao G. - 55.3%
Carter - 55.2%

[Stony152]

21-30

Charlton - 54.9%
Walden - 54.9%
Zhao X. - 54.9%
Liang W. - 54.8%
Gould - 54.7%
Lisowski - 54.7%
M. Davis - 54.6%
Day - 54.6%
McGill - 54.5%
Zhou Y. - 54.4%

[Stony152]

31-40

Fu - 54.3%
Doherty - 54.3%
J. Perry - 54.3%
Stevens - 54.3%
Parrott - 54.3%
Higginson - 54.2%
J. Jones - 54.2%
Hull - 54.2%
G. Wilson - 54.2%
Gilbert - 54.1%

[Stony152]

41-50

Brecel - 54.0%
Dott - 53.9%
Milkins - 53.7%
Ebdon - 53.6%
Maflin - 53.6%
Griffiths - 53.5%
Ford - 53.5%
Reardon - 53.5%
Burnett - 53.1%
Woollaston - 53.1%

I think it's safe to say that Zhao and Brecel have been significantly above average players who just haven't been able to put a run together too many times. Sometimes that's more about luck and timing than talent or even general performance.

[daffie]

What a Final in prospect! It's been a while since I've looked forward to it like I do today. Two amazing quick-fire very natural players. Should be fantastic!

[fkhan]

Un-Nooh's mum passed away. My condolences to him and his family and friends.

[JimMalone]

I think the average pot success numbers have gone up over the years, but I wouldn't necessarily say it's because the standard of play is higher. It's basically still mostly the same players at the top of the game, but the % is higher for everyone because the conditions for breakbuilding are much better. For instance, you will see a huge inflation of centuries per frame in recent years, even though the average age of top players is getting higher and higher. It's hard to believe this group of players have somehow drastically improved their technical ability compared to their younger years.

This.

Of course the general average in breakbuilding has become significantly better as there is always a development in every sport. Just look how different football or tennis is played today when compared even to the 90s - of course in those sports it not only has to do with better material as in snooker, but especially with better athleticism and more professionalism today. Though the latter to a certain degree is probably true for snooker as well.
But not only the conditions also the whole style of play has changed. As potting and cue ball control have become easier the focus in training and therefore in the match is more on this department.

[Stony152]

Others of note.

Thorburn - 52.9%
McManus - 52.9%
J. Spencer - 52.5%
A. Higgins - 52.2%
White - 52.0%
Thorne - 51.5%
Foulds - 51.2%
D. Taylor - 51.0%
Virgo - 50.0%
J. Johnson - 49.8%

[DeanH]

soon time... now where are the bourbons!

[trains]

This.

Of course the general average in breakbuilding has become significantly better as there is always a development in every sport. Just look how different football or tennis is played today when compared even to the 90s - of course in those sports it not only has to do with better material as in snooker, but especially with better athleticism and more professionalism today. Though the latter to a certain degree is probably true for snooker as well.
But not only the conditions also the whole style of play has changed. As potting and cue ball control have become easier the focus in training and therefore in the match is more on this department.

this is something of a reason as to why i find complaints that there aren't many new players coming through a bit strange because there's very little facilities outside of wst events replicating these facilities so unless you're actually on the tour you're not likely to develop much of a pro game outside of it , in other words a second year player winning the uk championship in 1993 like o sullivan isn't very likely nowadays.

[JimMalone]

I think it's safe to say that Zhao and Brecel have been significantly above average players who just haven't been able to put a run together too many times. Sometimes that's more about luck and timing than talent or even general performance.

The thing is though that consistency is one of the main things that separates great from very good players. And this is a department both players are lacking in. So far both have been very aggressive players, who can win if they pot well enough, but if they don't their all-around game has not been good enough.

Frame success isn't a bad stat when to look how players perform, but as with most stats you have to take it with a grain of salt. A point that pops into ones eye when looking at this list is how biased it is towards today players. Maybe that's because of the short formats nowadays and the bigger fields. In 128 player draws you can have the one or two "easy" opponents first, while in the old days you almost always played a "good player" early on.
Also a 6-1 win is not necessarily better than a 6-5. You just have to win.

[Stony152]

I'll take Zhao 10-8 and I really hope I'm wrong.