2022 Northern Ireland Open

[Odrl]

In this case, it's Studd and Foulds. But I think every single commentator and pundit I've heard butchers it in a very similar way. Notice how the referee who is from a Slavic country says it the same way she would say Tian Pengfei. I bet she never even considered anything else. It's still not exactly correct of course, but I find it much more acceptable.

[PatBlock]

Speaking of butchering, Mark Williams seems to have swapped his cue for a cleaver on several occasions tonight. Still in it though....

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[PatBlock]

In this case, it's Studd and Foulds. But I think every single commentator and pundit I've heard butchers it in a very similar way. Notice how the referee who is from a Slavic country says it the same way she would say Tian Pengfei. I bet she never even considered anything else. It's still not exactly correct of course, but I find it much more acceptable.

Honestly mate, switch to ambient, it's the only way to go.

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[fkhan]

Read that McGill won the last frame needing 2 snookers. That's quite rare. Well done.

[DeanH]

I just cannot comprehend the English logic of pronouncing Tian Pengfei's name one way, and then inventing some kind of "shian" sound for "tian" in Lyu Haotian's name. My brain cannot comprehend this. It's virtually the same syllable! Why Haoshian? Why?!

In Zhou's interview he pronounced it "Haoshian".
Different words of same spelling can have different pronunciations
Reading, reading.
Also remember the Anglicized version of the Chinese is definitely not as good as it could be.

Also the tian in Lyu's name is 呂昊天 - 天
Tian Pengfei is 田鹏飞 - 田
so there is already a difference in Chinese, so "shian" is probably the correct sound for Lyu and "Tian" is correct for Pengfei

When I did Chinese at school, there are many occurrences of this - same Roman letters but different sounds.

[PatBlock]

In Zhou's interview he pronounced it "Haoshian".
Different words of same spelling can have different pronunciations
Reading, reading.
Also remember the Anglicized version of the Chinese is definitely not as good as it could be.

Also the tian in Lyu's name is 呂昊天 - 天
Tian Pengfei is 田鹏飞 - 田
so there is already a difference in Chinese, so "shian" is probably the correct sound for Lyu and "Tian" is correct for Pengfei

When I did Chinese at school, there are many occurrences of this - same Roman letters but different sounds.

Wow. I stand corrected. Very impressed Dean. If I'm not being too nosy, where did you school? Was Chinese a chosen or mandatory subject?

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[DeanH]

Wow. I stand corrected. Very impressed Dean. If I'm not being too nosy, where did you school? Was Chinese a chosen or mandatory subject?

I am near London but far enough away to not be "london". Country-boy at heart

We had a new teacher one year who was the new chemistry teacher but he had just come back living in China for 7 years and he could teach it as well.
This was the 70s so very brave and impressive considering China mainland was essentially closed off to foreigners.
So our school was the first in the country to offer "Modern Standard Chinese" - Mandarin to everyone else - and as I was interested in the orient (early interest in Japanese martial arts) I signed up and did it for 3 years - obviously I only recall hello/goodbye/numbers [time well spent!]

[PatBlock]

I am near London but far enough away to not be "london". Country-boy at heart

We had a new teacher one year who was the new chemistry teacher but he had just come back living in China for 7 years and he could teach it as well.
This was the 70s so very brave and impressive considering China mainland was essentially closed off to foreigners.
So our school was the first in the country to offer "Modern Standard Chinese" - Mandarin to everyone else - and as I was interested in the orient (early interest in Japanese martial arts) I signed up and did it for 3 years - obviously I only recall hello/goodbye/numbers [time well spent!]

Fair dues mate, hats off to you and your school. Clearly enough stuck to give you a decent grasp of what I understand to be a difficult and complex language.
You'll have a head start when they eventually take over the world.

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[fkhan]

I am near London but far enough away to not be "london". Country-boy at heart

We had a new teacher one year who was the new chemistry teacher but he had just come back living in China for 7 years and he could teach it as well.
This was the 70s so very brave and impressive considering China mainland was essentially closed off to foreigners.
So our school was the first in the country to offer "Modern Standard Chinese" - Mandarin to everyone else - and as I was interested in the orient (early interest in Japanese martial arts) I signed up and did it for 3 years - obviously I only recall hello/goodbye/numbers [time well spent!]

Well done. The Chinese language is very tough to learn I think.

[PatBlock]

Wow Zhou! Great stuff, that's how to close out a match. And lovely to see the crowd's reaction/appreciation.

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[vmax]

In this case, it's Studd and Foulds. But I think every single commentator and pundit I've heard butchers it in a very similar way. Notice how the referee who is from a Slavic country says it the same way she would say Tian Pengfei. I bet she never even considered anything else. It's still not exactly correct of course, but I find it much more acceptable.

I wonder, do the slavic referees pronounce Jack Lis'ow'ski as Lisovski as there is no 'w' sound in slavic, it's not something I've noticed to be honest but I will look out for it in future. That bugs me more than any strangled chinese as it's basically obvious particularly considering the number of eastern europeans now living in the UK.

[Odrl]

In Zhou's interview he pronounced it "Haoshian".
Different words of same spelling can have different pronunciations
Reading, reading.
Also remember the Anglicized version of the Chinese is definitely not as good as it could be.

Also the tian in Lyu's name is 呂昊天 - 天
Tian Pengfei is 田鹏飞 - 田
so there is already a difference in Chinese, so "shian" is probably the correct sound for Lyu and "Tian" is correct for Pengfei

When I did Chinese at school, there are many occurrences of this - same Roman letters but different sounds.

Do you have any footage of that interview? It seems highly unlikely to me that it would be pronounced that way. Here is what I'm assuming is a native speaker saying it (the very first word in the video):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yPvkH-ejPw

And google translate pronounces it the same way.

The Reading/reading thing is actually another thing that is quite difficult for speakers of Slavic languages to get used to. We've gone crazy with declension and conjugation (I hope those are the right terms ), but there is usually no pronunciation mess like there is in English. Each letter usually only has one sound associated with it, so it's always pronounced the same, not different depending on the combination of letters in which it finds itself. With exceptions of course, but there usually isn't any guesswork like there is in English.

Chinese looks horribly complicated by comparison. When listening to it, it would be very difficult for me to attempt to write it down phonetically, because the syllables don't match our own. And apparently intonation changes the meaning of words, which is not a thing in Slavic languages, or even in English, as far as I know.

[Odrl]

I wonder, do the slavic referees pronounce Jack Lis'ow'ski as Lisovski as there is no 'w' sound in slavic, it's not something I've noticed to be honest but I will look out for it in future. That bugs me more than any strangled chinese as it's basically obvious particularly considering the number of eastern europeans now living in the UK.

Don't know, it would be interesting to hear. It's quite possible that they would attempt to pronounce it the way he pronounces it himself, rather than the way they would pronounce a Polish player with the same name.

There are many similarities in Slavic languages, but also quite a few differences. I suspect the absence of the letter "v" in Polish is quite unique. It's similar to German in that way, with "w" taking its place. In Slovenian, for example, the letter "w" doesn't exist. There is a similar distinction between the letters "v" and "u" instead, but sometimes they are used interchangeably, and some regional dialects completely replace the "w" sound with "v" or even "f" in their pronunciation.

[DeanH]

Do you have any footage of that interview? It seems highly unlikely to me that it would be pronounced that way. Here is what I'm assuming is a native speaker saying it (the very first word in the video):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yPvkH-ejPw

And google translate pronounces it the same way.

The Reading/reading thing is actually another thing that is quite difficult for speakers of Slavic languages to get used to. We've gone crazy with declension and conjugation (I hope those are the right terms ), but there is usually no pronunciation mess like there is in English. Each letter usually only has one sound associated with it, so it's always pronounced the same, not different depending on the combination of letters in which it finds itself. With exceptions of course, but there usually isn't any guesswork like there is in English.

Chinese looks horribly complicated by comparison. When listening to it, it would be very difficult for me to attempt to write it down phonetically, because the syllables don't match our own. And apparently intonation changes the meaning of words, which is not a thing in Slavic languages, or even in English, as far as I know.

It was the Eurosport studio interview immediately after the match, along with Jimmy White.
I am not saying which pronunciation is right, just that you can have same Roman lettered words with different sounds
Learning Chinese is very difficult especially the syntax as the order of words are different from most European languages

I have also thought about the differences between the w-v v-w usage

[DeanH]

Got to see last night's match, scrappy in places and Neil was missing by miles - so uncharacteristically - Mark stuck to the job and had some luck (like the full length double ).

Looking forward to the final today