2014 World Championship - Discussion

[P.Smith]

Nice little session of snooker there. Not sure who to root for here as I have a slight preference for Neil but I'd quite like to see Selby win his first world title, so I think I'll stick to being neutral!

They took a long time for the first 4 frames, but it was actually high quality snooker rather than the snoozefest in the 2nd session of the trump/robertson match where Neil was taking a ridiculous amount of time on each ball.

[Giggity1984]

Gotta say cueman's comments seem a bit strange. Just because players aren't attempting to pot every single ball with average shot times of below 20 seconds that it's boring? There have been big breaks, reasonable pot percentages, good safety. Sounds good to me!

I liken his opinion to how F1 is being run, where they are artificially trying to inject excitement with new rules, DRS, ers, disintegrating tyres, fuel flow regs. It's the sport trying to attract a new audience who couldn't care less about the sport. To complete the parallel, if you had 32 Ronnie o sullivans playing the game, you'd have no more viewers then you do right now. The people who don't watch snooker don't do so because it's hard matchplay, with safety play, they don't watch it because it's men with sticks hitting balls about.

Be careful what you wish for cueman, because a snooker WC with shot clocks, shortened formats, limited toilet breaks, and no safety only pots allowed, would be **** for the fans and the people who wouldn't watch snooker anyway wouldn't be enticed in.

Everybody loses.

[Hal]

Superb snooker session for me, I am going to stick with minority .... I am not rooting for anyone, just want to one of Selby/Robertson to get world title :]

[robertmac]

Rpbertson seemed tired and not his usual self so hopefully
he can get on track tomorrow and take control of this match.

Hawkins hopefully can start strong tomorrow as well and get
his match evened out. He also seemed tired and off.

I would like to see a Robertson vs O'Sullivan final myself.

[wake_up_bomb]

Talking about kicks...I'm not sure why they're still wondering about this because it was proven with super-slow motion cameras years ago that the balls do all sort of things after contact that the human eye can't perceive and in fact many shots 'kick' without us knowing it. It's just that sometimes we get an outcome that we don't expect or desire. Maybe heat can contribute to this process, but you'll never create perfect conditions because when you hit one ball onto another ball over a short distance, it's going to create turbulence and thus unpredictability. Note that shots over a long distance are far less likely to kick because by the time the cue ball reaches the object ball there is less turbulence. It's a similar principle as to why no-one slices a golf shot when they're hitting over short distances with minimal effort; long drives with the club accelerating through the ball fast create more instability, and are therefore more unpredictable. There is a (fairly) easy to comprehend discussion of this principle here:

http://fractalfoundation.org/resourc...-chaos-theory/

I won't email the BBC and suggest this, though, I'll let them continue with their present theories...

[P.Smith]

Be careful what you wish for cueman, because a snooker WC with shot clocks, shortened formats, limited toilet breaks, and no safety only pots allowed, would be **** for the fans and the people who wouldn't watch snooker anyway wouldn't be enticed in.

I don't think he actually suggested any of that. I have no idea why you've chosen to focus on such an extreme.

[statto]

There isn't an empty seat when Ronnie is playing, and he commands the highest price for exhibitions. If there were a poll of which player you'd most like to watch we don't even need to guess who'd win it easily.

The people who post here are not indicative of the average snooker viewer.

I can happily watch the Selby/Robertson stuff, but if it was all like that I'd struggle. I happily watch the Ronnie stuff and if it was all like that I'd love it.

Steve Davis was more aggressive than the Cliff Thornburn's of the world and he was the best player of the 80s. Hendry was more aggressive than the John Parrot's and he was the best player of the 90s. Ronnie is more aggressive than the Mark Selby's and he's the one with five world titles. The lesson is that a good aggressive player will beat a good grinder more often than not.

John Higgins is a great defensive player, but he didn't win his titles playing the way Selby and Robertson are in this tournament.

[funkrider]

The game is more complex than that. In this session you just saw the more defensive player turn his strategy into attack. These things are what make snooker interesting and what bring in new fans. People want rivalries and good quality snooker. The first part is essential to any sport really.

[cox orange pippin]

Totally agree.....fortunate there are still a few players who rely on skill and not on gamesmanship ....too bad world number 1 is not one of them.

Number 1 in name only. He may have the pleasure of meeting the real number 1 in the final.

[RaveDave]

That Kohler guy is good just been watching a few of his vids...

and yeah apparently if you concentrate enough there are trickshots going on after 1:25...

[jrc750]

At 2:42 it's a wonder he could concentrate !!

[cyberheater]

At 2:42 it's a wonder he could concentrate !!

Yes. I was starting to hear a Terry Griffiths type slip up starting to echo around my brain.

[jrc750]

Yes. I was starting to hear a Terry Griffiths type slip up starting to echo around my brain.

I think he should of played the thin cut
Also a lovely smile at 2:35 after the cue ball gives a nice little brush

[wake_up_bomb]

Steve Davis was more aggressive than the Cliff Thornburn's of the world and he was the best player of the 80s. Hendry was more aggressive than the John Parrot's and he was the best player of the 90s. Ronnie is more aggressive than the Mark Selby's and he's the one with five world titles. The lesson is that a good aggressive player will beat a good grinder more often than not.

You see, I would say something completely different. Steve Davis was better than Cliff Thorburn. Hendry was better than Parrott. O' Sullivan is better than Selby. It's not that their more aggressive play paid off, they were able to play that way because they were the best. Actually, Steve Davis has spoken about how he had to play more aggressively in his later years due to the nature of the game changing; he was pretty conservative in his heyday.

Ultimately, snooker or any sport is about playing the right shot at the right time. Ronnie plays the way he does because he believes he can win that way and he has less chance if it's a grind because he puts himself through the blender mentally. Other players might think playing a high risk strategy is not in their interest. You can't force people to change their style to one that doesn't suit them. In tennis, I'm not a fan of Nadal's style of play, but I don't expect him to change it because he's won 8 French Opens in 9 years playing that way. Not everyone likes Selby, but you can't expect him to start taking on difficult pots left-handed and taking 15 seconds per shot because people like Ronnie (including me).

[statto]

You see, I would say something completely different. Steve Davis was better than Cliff Thorburn. Hendry was better than Parrott. O' Sullivan is better than Selby. It's not that their more aggressive play paid off, they were able to play that way because they were the best. Actually, Steve Davis has spoken about how he had to play more aggressively in his later years due to the nature of the game changing; he was pretty conservative in his heyday.

Ultimately, snooker or any sport is about playing the right shot at the right time. Ronnie plays the way he does because he believes he can win that way and he has less chance if it's a grind because he puts himself through the blender mentally. Other players might think playing a high risk strategy is not in their interest. You can't force people to change their style to one that doesn't suit them. In tennis, I'm not a fan of Nadal's style of play, but I don't expect him to change it because he's won 8 French Opens in 9 years playing that way. Not everyone likes Selby, but you can't expect him to start taking on difficult pots left-handed and taking 15 seconds per shot because people like Ronnie (including me).

I think your point is true to an extent. If they were just playing that way against Ronnie then that's fair enough, but Robertson was playing like that against Trump and I don't think many people would claim Trump was a better player. When I think back to how Robertson was playing when he won his World Title he was much more positive.

I would also say that while Davis was conservative by todays standards he was actually a fairly aggressive player when compared to his contemporaries (Spencer, Thorburn, Charlton etc). There are always the outliers like Higgins and White, but they were the exceptions.