The Masters Jan 11 - 18, 2015

[robertmac]

Trump will lose unless he starts to focus more
and play much better and put together some
good breaks. He isnt playing well at all.

[bingo]

Trump has definitely gone off the boil. I am not complaining though since I put a small bet on Mags. Hoping he can wrap things up easily

[cueman]

Matter of opinion if White and the others played on bigger pockets, if seen plenty of people casting doubt on the supposed tightness of the pockets that players play on these days. And if you've not seen white play screw shots over 10 feet plus then you must not have watched that much snooker throughout the years. There's also the fact that the tables were much slower in the 80's and 90's than they are today so playing those kind of shots required much more power, which in turn required much more accuracy.

This vid at the 1:10 mark shows white playing a long range screw shot from around 10 feet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yp-TeVaTEs

This vid at the 1:08 mark shows higgins doing it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocHpavzr8lE

Both played on older tables with much slower cloth.

Hmmm very debatable if you are calling those deep screw shots, they are both aided, in White's case by the object ball close to the cushion and the spin and side takes effect once the white hits the cushion. In higgins case that red hit potted was screwed off a pack of about 13 reds again exaggerating the effect of the spin because of the contact on the other balls creating a cushion like spring effect.

I've watched more snooker than most and trust me, I know what I say is correct, you can see countless examples of Trump's cue power, direct screw shots with supreme accuracy. Tables are a little more responsive today but its the accuracy I'm talking about too. Trump used to play these shots on club tables when he was a junior with old cloths, I've witnessed it with my own eyes.

[Alba_]

Hmmm very debatable if you are calling those deep screw shots, they are both aided, in White's case by the object ball close to the cushion and the spin and side takes effect once the white hits the cushion. In higgins case that red hit potted was screwed off a pack of about 13 reds again exaggerating the effect of the spin because of the contact on the other balls creating a cushion like spring effect.

I've watched more snooker than most and trust me, I know what I say is correct, you can see countless examples of Trump's cue power, direct screw shots with supreme accuracy. Tables are a little more responsive today but its the accuracy I'm talking about too. Trump used to play these shots on club tables when he was a junior with old cloths, I've witnessed it with my own eyes.

Yer arse

[Leo]

Trump has definitely gone off the boil. I am not complaining though since I put a small bet on Mags. Hoping he can wrap things up easily

Same here mine is a double I need to come in though

[narl]

Hmmm very debatable if you are calling those deep screw shots, they are both aided, in White's case by the object ball close to the cushion and the spin and side takes effect once the white hits the cushion. In higgins case that red hit potted was screwed off a pack of about 13 reds again exacerbating the effect of the spin because of the contact on the other balls creating a cushion like spring effect.

I've watched more snooker than most and trust me, I know what I say is correct, you can see countless examples of Trump's cue power, direct screw shots with supreme accuracy. Tables are a little more responsive today but its the accuracy I'm talking about too. Trump used to play these shots on club tables when he was a junior with old cloths, I've witnessed it with my own eyes.

Really doesn't matter, over the years white and higgins played loads of those kind of shots, they weren't known for cue power (amongst other things) for no reason.

And the only reason you can see "countless shots" of trump playing lots of these shots is 2 fold

1. He does them all the time.

2. We're in an internet age where video compilations of that kind of thing are more common and easier to find than stuff from the 70's, 80's and 90's.

Tables are MUCH more responsive these days than they were in higgins and whites hayday, the cloth has got finer and finer over the years and the tables back then weren't heated which obviously also helps with speed. Steve Davis once said the modern tables and cloth was like playing on ice compared to what he used to play on.

[cueman]

Well Dennis Taylor just said he's watched all the players down the years and he's not seen a player with more cue power!

Anyway casting all this aside, does anyone else think that Maguire needs to be warned about banging his cue on the floor every time he plays a bad shot or something goes wrong. Its a deliberate tactic to intimidate the opponent in my opinion and I think its ungentlemenly conduct and should be warned under that ruling.

[narl]

Well Dennis Taylor just said he's watched all the players down the years and he's not seen a player with more cue power!

Dennis Taylor, this being the same guy that has his jaw hitting the floor in amazement if someone managed to screw a ball back more than 2 feet? Put trump on conditions of the 80's or 90's and he'd be lost, the simple fact is the tables these days assist greatly in the shots that are achievable.

[cueman]

Dennis Taylor, this being the same guy that has his jaw hitting the floor in amazement if someone managed to screw a ball back more than 2 feet? Put trump on conditions of the 80's or 90's and he'd be lost, the simple fact is the tables these days assist greatly in the shots that are achievable.

I just told you that Trump played these same shots on club tables in Keynsham on cloths in some cases over 2 years old. Perhaps not quite the same reaction but the fact remains he developed his cue power on these cloths.

Jimmy White played throughout the 90's and 00's and yet there is zero footage of any deep screw shots so that also dispels your myth that there are more tournaments and footage available.
Stop being argumentative and just accept that if all the pundits say it and its not just Dennis Taylor then they know more than you'll ever know!

[cyberheater]

Well Dennis Taylor just said he's watched all the players down the years and he's not seen a player with more cue power!

I've been saying for a while. I think Judd has the best technique of all the players which is why his cue power is so phenomenal.

[Alba_]

Well Dennis Taylor just said he's watched all the players down the years and he's not seen a player with more cue power!

Anyway casting all this aside, does anyone else think that Maguire needs to be warned about banging his cue on the floor every time he plays a bad shot or something goes wrong. Its a deliberate tactic to intimidate the opponent in my opinion and I think its ungentlemenly conduct and should be warned under that ruling.

You can't change someones emotional side by warning them. They will do it no matter what. I Don't think it's intimidating at all. It lets you know the other player is getting angry and wound up thus you can use it to your advantage. It's a weakness i think banging the table and stamping your cue. All the great players are ice faced and hide their emotions. Ronnie, Higgins, Davis, Hendry when they are not happy or angry they hide it and keep to themselves.

[Odrl]

Anyway casting all this aside, does anyone else think that Maguire needs to be warned about banging his cue on the floor every time he plays a bad shot or something goes wrong. Its a deliberate tactic to intimidate the opponent in my opinion and I think its ungentlemenly conduct and should be warned under that ruling.

I thought he's been quite disciplined today, compared to some of his angrier antics. Perhaps because the scoreline is still pretty favourable for him. :smile:

I'm not sure it does intimidate opponents though. If they've seen Maguire play they must know it's a great sign for them when he starts getting angry. :smile:

[Alba_]

I've been saying for a while. I think Judd has the best technique of all the players which is why his cue power is so phenomenal.

He does not move at all when he is deep screwing 10 feet back. His body head shoulders are so still it's frighting.

[cueman]

He does not move at all when he is deep screwing 10 feet back. His body head shoulders are so still it's frighting.

exactly, I'll never understand anyone who tries to compare his technique to say that of White or Higgins who threw their shoulder into any shot requiring a bit of cue power. John spencer had far more cue power and better technique at cueing than those two but never got the credit he deserved for it. He produced deep screw shots in the 70's and 80's on tables that some insist weren't possible!

[narl]

I just told you that Trump played these same shots on club tables in Keynsham on cloths in some cases over 2 years old. Perhaps not quite the same reaction but the fact remains he developed his cue power on these cloths.

Jimmy White played throughout the 90's and 00's and yet there is zero footage of any deep screw shots so that also dispels your myth that there are more tournaments and footage available.
Stop being argumentative and just accept that if all the pundits say it and its not just Dennis Taylor then they know more than you'll ever know!

Look around on YouTube and you will find more modern day footage than older footage, mainly because people record video streams and upload them. Not everyone wants to go to the trouble of having to record old vhs tapes to their computer, encode and upload them. There's also a lot more tournaments these days so you're more likely to find a lot of instances of trump doing his power shot gimmick, lets not forget he's in the top 16, white isn't. He's on tv much more, so more chance of seeing more of those kind of shots and more chance of people putting them into compilations.

The way you're talking its as if Snooker equipment hasn't changed over the years. back in Joe Davis era a lot of today's shots simply weren't possible, so things have obviously moved on with regard to what's possible and what isn't, and the table, balls and cloth play a LARGE factor in what's doable and what isn't.