O'Sullivan v Hendry - Masters Pedigree

[vilkrang]

Hendry didn't win any of snooker's 3 majors after the 90s. He was only 31 at the start of the 2000s. Since Ronnie turned 31 he has won 2 UK Championships, 4 Masters and 3 Worlds, in an era that is ridiculously more competitive than the 90s. Just look at the difference in scoring and the number of centuries made (or frames per century if you're going to bring out the argument that more matches are played). Players win frames in one visit far more often than they did in the 90s.

Hendry was dominant in a weak era but once the competition started to get close to his level he started bottling it at key moments which is partly why he never won a major after the end of the 90s. Ronnie has been more consistent over a longer period and has had more success in the more recent era where it's clear that the competition is of a much higher level.

Ronnie also has the highest win percentage in final frame deciders (for players who have played a significant number of deciders) which shows he has great bottle.

I too would love to have seen Ronnie, Higgins and Hendry all playing at their peak at the same time. I don't think Hendry would have would 7 world titles but it's all ifs and buts, he did win those 7 world titles and therefore that's the mark to beat.

But regularly winning majors for 23 years and doing so in a stronger era marks Ronnie out as being ahead, he's only behind in terms of world titles and it's not inconceivable that he could win two more.

What is absolutely certain is that if Ronnie wins two more World's then there won't even be an argument to make any more (he's already equal on UK and Master's victories).

And here is a good page to illustrate how much tougher this era is, look how many older players feature on this list, or players from the 90s (not many):

http://cuetracker.net/Statistics/Poi...reaks/All-time

However, in defence of Hendry, is that I highly doubt anyone will ever win 7 world titles in a decade again (or even 6, as Davis did) or win 5 Masters in a row, so the dominance of Hendry is unlikely to ever be equalled, especially with a more level playing field these days.

Edit: I realise I went a bit off topic, anyway back on topic, as I've said I don't think anyone will win 5 Masters in a row again but Ronnie has had to beat better players to win his titles. A strong case can be made for either.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

I think of them as this: Hendry got stronger as the pressure increased and Ronnie gets weaker.

Hendry clear winner for me. Couldn't stand the man but he was an absolute beast.

[vilkrang]

I think of them as this: Hendry got stronger as the pressure increased and Ronnie gets weaker.

Hendry clear winner for me. Couldn't stand the man but he was an absolute beast.

Check out final frame decider stats. Ronnie is far superior in that regard so I don't think your argument holds up (unless you take facts out of the equation and just go on gut feeling, I prefer facts though).

I couldn't stand Hendry when he was playing, loved watching his decline in the 2000s, was dismayed when I learned he was to join the BBC commentary team but he has won me over since retiring, probably the best commentator they have now and seems like a decent bloke now that he isn't competing.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Check out final frame decider stats. Ronnie is far superior in that regard so I don't think your argument holds up (unless you take facts out of the equation and just go on gut feeling, I prefer facts though).

I couldn't stand Hendry when he was playing, loved watching his decline in the 2000s, was dismayed when I learned he was to join the BBC commentary team but he has won me over since retiring, probably the best commentator they have now and seems like a decent bloke now that he isn't competing.

Hendry generally steam rollered people long before final frame deciders, especially Ronnie lol. I too prefer facts...

I can't see what everyone else does when it comes to Hendry's commentary. He's the worst there is, both as commentator or pundit. He rarely says anything, which puts pressure on the co-commentator to fill the void, which is why you get the likes of taylor never S'ingTFU.

Agree he seems less of an arrogant twat these days, however.

[vilkrang]

Hendry generally steam rollered people long before final frame deciders, especially Ronnie lol. I too prefer facts...

If you like facts, you'd notice that Ronnie has a winning head to head record against Hendry, and the biggest winning margin between the two was when Ronnie beat Hendry at the semis of the World's.

[richproc]

If you ask Ronnie how good Hendry was he would tell you he was the greatest. this might be over all a stronger era throughout the whole rankings but the top 8 is full of mentally weak players who get chances against Ronnie but don't take them. Hendry would not be scared of Ronnie like the other players are and if peak Hendry was around today he would be runaway number 1 as Ronnie doesn't play enough.

[golferson123]

If you ask Ronnie how good Hendry was he would tell you he was the greatest. this might be over all a stronger era throughout the whole rankings but the top 8 is full of mentally weak players who get chances against Ronnie but don't take them. Hendry would not be scared of Ronnie like the other players are and if peak Hendry was around today he would be runaway number 1 as Ronnie doesn't play enough.

that will upset the ronnie lovers lol, but i think you are right

[itsnoteasy]

I think half of Ronnies trouble is the standard he has to play against, he believes( quite rightly) he's better than them,he needs a Hendry or Higgins to push him , I honestly don't believe we have seen his best, he's been brilliant but I think with a Hendry or Higgins type he would have been brilliant much more often, he would have played more and I doubt we would have seen him just smashing balls around and getting humped in the early rounds of a tourney( was it the German masters? ) if Hendry was still in it.

[winphenom]

You are right Itsnoteasy. But it works both ways with other players as well. If Steve Davis and Hendry were in the modern era, then they will definitely practice, improve and find a way to beat the rest just like they raised snooker standards at their era. Its what pushes sportsman around the world to beat the world records through all sports and all ages.
Ronnie is now playing at a standard in the Welsh Open which is a class above the rest of the field now. Unbelievable that his safety, long pots and table clearances are at this level which i feel only Robertson or Selby can try to match. The rest will have to catch up to be in that league.

[armstm]

yes good point. his standard was unreal that year.

Just to add to the "8 months off" discussion, John Higgins was away from the game for more than 7 months before winning the 2010 UK Championship, his first event back from suspension. He then added the Welsh Open and the World title in what was left of that season, but for some reason the comparison with O'Sullivan's absence is never made... :wink:

[itsnoteasy]

You are right Itsnoteasy. But it works both ways with other players as well. If Steve Davis and Hendry were in the modern era, then they will definitely practice, improve and find a way to beat the rest just like they raised snooker standards at their era. Its what pushes sportsman around the world to beat the world records through all sports and all ages.
Ronnie is now playing at a standard in the Welsh Open which is a class above the rest of the field now. Unbelievable that his safety, long pots and table clearances are at this level which i feel only Robertson or Selby can try to match. The rest will have to catch up to be in that league.

That's exactly what I mean, it blows my mind to think what standard of snooker those three players would have produced if they were all at their peak all pushing each other to the limits of their talent and mental strength ,it may have broken snooker! So that's why it wasn't allowed to happen.
Odrl, I have spoken with two pros and I asked them the question who was the best they have ever played or seen and they both said John Higgins had the most talent out of anyone, which did surprise me.

[winphenom]

Well..i can only deduce that John Higgins to some is the greatest player because he is self trained and has quite a good all round game. But i think he got to this level was also partly due to Stephen Hendry's influence and mentality. This is because he used to play and practice often with Hendry in his younger days which honed his all round game to such a high standard.

[Ronnington]

I think the 1999-2004 era was the strongest it's ever been.

Hendry, O'Sullivan, prime Mark Williams, John Higgins, Paul Hunter, Stephen Lee etc.

Ronnie and Jimmy White both said on Eurosport this was the most competitive time in snooker for them.

[itsnoteasy]

I think the 1999-2004 era was the strongest it's ever been.

Hendry, O'Sullivan, prime Mark Williams, John Higgins, Paul Hunter, Stephen Lee etc.

Ronnie and Jimmy White both said on Eurosport this was the most competitive time in snooker for them.

That's quite a line up, wouldn't give today's top five much of a hope against them, and they say snooker has moved on! Any one of the above would give Ronnie a run for his money, they certainly wouldn't crumble under the pressure.

[Leo]

I think the 1999-2004 era was the strongest it's ever been.

Hendry, O'Sullivan, prime Mark Williams, John Higgins, Paul Hunter, Stephen Lee etc.

Ronnie and Jimmy White both said on Eurosport this was the most competitive time in snooker for them.

I would sling Matthew Stevens in that bunch too. He was solid back then.