Welsh Open 2016 - Discussion

[DeanH]

Fair enough, but obviously I would disagree with that. The Welsh Open does have longer tradition, but the German Masters has longer matches and significantly higher prize money...

It's only 2k more for the winner is it not

both winners get £60k

[Odrl]

It's only 2k more for the winner is it not

Yeah, you're right. I forgot the prize money for the German Masters was in Euros. It's about the same.

[Odrl]

Do any of the stat men know what Ronnies record of winning from behind in finals is( not the odd frame say three at least)

Depends on what exactly you mean... Matches where O'Sullivan was at least three frames behind at any point before the final frame? And what kind of finals are we looking at? Ranking finals?

If so, O'Sullivan was at least three frames behind in 11 of his major ranking finals (excluding the short format World Open). He won 5, lost 6. He lost to Higgins, Wattana, Selby, Williams, and twice to Hendry. He beat Brian Morgan, Davis, Dott, Maguire, and now Robertson. :smile:

He was also three frames behind in one of his Masters finals and went on to lose it, against Hendry in 1996.

[jrc750]

How the .... do you know that ?

[Odrl]

How the .... do you know that ?

I didn't, until 15 minutes ago. :smile:

[zombieman]

Ronnie's 28 wins from 40 ranking finals is pretty impressive. Davis had 41, Higgins 43 to reach 28 wins.

Ding Junhui is also up there with 11 out of 14. The King of Clutch

[vilkrang]

Depends on what exactly you mean... Matches where O'Sullivan was at least three frames behind at any point before the final frame? And what kind of finals are we looking at? Ranking finals?

If so, O'Sullivan was at least three frames behind in 11 of his major ranking finals (excluding the short format World Open). He won 5, lost 6. He lost to Higgins, Wattana, Selby, Williams, and twice to Hendry. He beat Brian Morgan, Davis, Dott, Maguire, and now Robertson. :smile:

He was also three frames behind in one of his Masters finals and went on to lose it, against Hendry in 1996.

I feel like I'm going mad... I distinctly remember Ronnie coming back from about 8-3 or even 9-3 down in a final against Higgins, to then win 5 or 6 in a row but then lose the decider.

I can't find this match though, yet I definitely have the memory of watching it... Can anyone shed any light on the match I'm thinking of or have I lost the plot?

[Odrl]

I feel like I'm going mad... I distinctly remember Ronnie coming back from about 8-3 or even 9-3 down in a final against Higgins, to then win 5 or 6 in a row but then lose the decider.

I can't find this match though, yet I definitely have the memory of watching it... Can anyone shed any light on the match I'm thinking of or have I lost the plot?

Yes, that was the 2009 UK Championship, but it was in the semi-finals. :smile:

[itsnoteasy]

Depends on what exactly you mean... Matches where O'Sullivan was at least three frames behind at any point before the final frame? And what kind of finals are we looking at? Ranking finals?

If so, O'Sullivan was at least three frames behind in 11 of his major ranking finals (excluding the short format World Open). He won 5, lost 6. He lost to Higgins, Wattana, Selby, Williams, and twice to Hendry. He beat Brian Morgan, Davis, Dott, Maguire, and now Robertson. :smile:

He was also three frames behind in one of his Masters finals and went on to lose it, against Hendry in 1996.

Nailed it Odrl, exactly what I was after, many thanks.
He's often quoted as a great front runner which sounds a bit like a flat track bully, I just wondered how he got on coming from behind. It doesn't seem a bad record at all.

[vilkrang]

Yes, that was the 2009 UK Championship, but it was in the semi-finals. :smile:

Cheers for clearing that up, was one of the best matches I'd seen so I just assumed it was a final!

[PaddyLowson]

Credit to Ronnie for his victory this week. Despite Monday's antics he has been the in-form player of the week and even though short of his best earlier on today. He had no fear of getting over the line from 7-5. 6-3 could have been a different story.

Been a rather good Welsh Open this week and it seems to be that Cardiff is actually coping well with the 128 players. I think it's worked better playing the rounds on seperate days and despite the tonnes of best of 7 matches has 'de-PTCicised this somewhat.

[PaddyLowson]

Nailed it Odrl, exactly what I was after, many thanks.
He's often quoted as a great front runner which sounds a bit like a flat track bully, I just wondered how he got on coming from behind. It doesn't seem a bad record at all.

It'd be interesting to see at what stages did O'Sullivan slip three behind in those matches as well - as a recovery to win a final 9-8 from 8-5 down is more noteworthy than winning a final 9-8 having trailed 4-1.

[Stevedavisshouldbeson]

All these stats are pretty pointless. His game has changed over the last few years and he has upped his game. Where as the player we are talking about against him either haven't or no longer play. Stats are fun but pointless tbh. Just admire him for winning tonight and don't over think pointless stats.

[Odrl]

It'd be interesting to see at what stages did O'Sullivan slip three behind in those matches as well - as a recovery to win a final 9-8 from 8-5 down is more noteworthy than winning a final 9-8 having trailed 4-1.

Alright, here we go...

Defeats:

1993 European Open, 9-5 against Stephen Hendry: A close match throughout, with Hendry only getting the three-frame lead in the penultimate frame, at 8-5.
1995 Thailand Open, 9-6 against James Wattana: Wattana went 4-0 and 5-1 ahead, and was always ahead in the match. O'Sullivan later came back to 7-5 and 8-6, but couldn't get any closer.
2000 Grand Prix, 9-5 against Mark Williams: It went 5-2 and 7-2 to Williams, then O'Sullivan came back to 7-5 in the evening.
2003 British Open, 9-6 against Stephen Hendry: Similar to the other final against Hendry. O'Sullivan was actually in front by a frame or two for a long time, until going 8-5 behind in the final session.
2005 Grand Prix, 9-2 against John Higgins: Higgins took a 5-2 lead with a century at the end of the first session, then made three more centuries in the first three frames of the evening session.
2014 World Championship, 18-14 against Mark Selby: A bit weird to include this one as an example of O'Sullivan being behind in a final. Of course he was actually leading for most of the match, and only went three behind in the closing stages, at 15-12.

Wins:

1996 Asian Classic, 9-8 against Brian Morgan: Morgan led 3-0 and 6-3. O'Sullivan came back to 6-6, and the rest of the match was close.
2004 Welsh Open, 9-8 against Steve Davis: Davis was in front for almost the entire match. He led 3-0 and 4-1, and later 8-5, before O'Sullivan won the last four frames to take the match.
2004 World Championship, 18-8 against Graeme Dott: O'Sullivan actually went 5-0 down at the start of the match, before winning 18 of the next 21 frames.
2012 German Masters, 9-7 against Stephen Maguire: The match started with four centuries between them, Maguire taking a 4-1 lead. Maguire also led 6-3, before O'Sullivan was able to take control of the match.
2016 Welsh Open, 9-5 against Neil Robertson: Does anyone remember this one? :smile: 5-2 to Robertson in the first session, before O'Sullivan comes back with seven frames in a row.

[vilkrang]

Alright, here we go...

Defeats:

1993 European Open, 9-5 against Stephen Hendry: A close match throughout, with Hendry only getting the three-frame lead in the penultimate frame, at 8-5.
1995 Thailand Open, 9-6 against James Wattana: Wattana went 4-0 and 5-1 ahead, and was always ahead in the match. O'Sullivan later came back to 7-5 and 8-6, but couldn't get any closer.
2000 Grand Prix, 9-5 against Mark Williams: It went 5-2 and 7-2 to Williams, then O'Sullivan came back to 7-5 in the evening.
2003 British Open, 9-6 against Stephen Hendry: Similar to the other final against Hendry. O'Sullivan was actually in front by a frame or two for a long time, until going 8-5 behind in the final session.
2005 Grand Prix, 9-2 against John Higgins: Higgins took a 5-2 lead with a century at the end of the first session, then made three more centuries in the first three frames of the evening session.
2014 World Championship, 18-14 against Mark Selby: A bit weird to include this one as an example of O'Sullivan being behind in a final. Of course he was actually leading for most of the match, and only went three behind in the closing stages, at 15-12.

Wins:

1996 Asian Classic, 9-8 against Brian Morgan: Morgan led 3-0 and 6-3. O'Sullivan came back to 6-6, and the rest of the match was close.
2004 Welsh Open, 9-8 against Steve Davis: Davis was in front for almost the entire match. He led 3-0 and 4-1, and later 8-5, before O'Sullivan won the last four frames to take the match.
2004 World Championship, 18-8 against Graeme Dott: O'Sullivan actually went 5-0 down at the start of the match, before winning 18 of the next 21 frames.
2012 German Masters, 9-7 against Stephen Maguire: The match started with four centuries between them, Maguire taking a 4-1 lead. Maguire also led 6-3, before O'Sullivan was able to take control of the match.
2016 Welsh Open, 9-5 against Neil Robertson: Does anyone remember this one? :smile: 5-2 to Robertson in the first session, before O'Sullivan comes back with seven frames in a row.

Nice one, The Davis final was the most impressive then. Interesting to see Davis was still making finals well in to his 40s as well, I notice he made the UK final (when it was still longer format) in 2005 when he was just shy of 50. If Ronnie is still making ranking finals for another 8 or 9 years and gets finals gifted to him as easily as this one was then he could conceivably overtake Hendry's total tally of ranking wins.

I still think he needs to win two of the next 3, maybe 4 World's to equal the tally of 7 though and after then it will be too late. But then I didn't think he would be producing the standard of snooker he has displayed this week when in his 40s (particularly his long potting) so he has defied expectations before.

I definitely don't think he'll surpass Hendry but he has a fair chance of equalling his record.