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2017 World Championship - Main Event

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  • Originally Posted by Odrl View Post
    Here we are then, only the World final remains...

    I don't watch the World Championship in the hope that any particular player wins, my only hope is to see snooker played at its highest possible level and to see a couple of matches that might live in the memory as all-time classics. Unfortunately the draw often works out in such a way that the final can be a bit of an anti-climax, but I think we've avoided that danger on this occasion. I guess the dream final before the Championship would have been Selby-Trump, a match between the dominant player of the season and his nearest (though still distant) rival. Well, I think Selby-Higgins comes pretty damn close, and it should be a great finale to what has been an interesting season.

    Whenever we talk about this pairing, we inevitably have to go back to the 2007 World final... I guess history will remember it as a final between two all-time greats, two players who will have won seven World titles between them after tomorrow, but of course things looked a little different ten years ago. It's funny if you think about it now, since 2007 isn't exactly ancient history, but at the time Higgins and Selby actually only had one World title between them. Selby in particular was a fairly unknown player on the big stage. He had reached a ranking final before, back when he was still a teenager, but he had a couple of fairly quiet seasons before 2007. He was basically a solid top32 player who was expected to eventually make some sort of breakthrough, but I don't think many people expected him to have the kind of career he has gone on to have. There isn't really a good comparison with anyone from this year's Championship, but I would say that Xiao Guodong perhaps comes closest. If I think about it now, I wasn't particularly excited before the 2007 final. The Championship as whole was a really good one that year, so I was afraid the final would be a little anti-climactic. I thought it would either be the favourite winning in unremarkable fashion, or a big underdog winning for the third year in a row (after Murphy and Dott), and the idea of another major shock didn't really appeal to me, because I wanted the top players to produce their best snooker in the most important tournament of the season. In all honesty, I wouldn't have given Selby the kind of credit he would have deserved had he won that year, I would have probably put it down to Higgins bottling it more than anything else. Back then I didn't really know what Selby was about. I'd seen him play lots of times, but he never really stood out to me as someone who had an exceptional safety game or was particularly strong mentally. He ended up playing a big part in that final though. It was Higgins who dominated the opening day, playing a superb second session, as he so often does, and pulling away to 12-4. But the following afternoon was a bit of a nightmare for him, a slow grind during which he seemed to spend most of the time in his chair looking half asleep, and Selby won all six frames that were played. It eventually went as close as 14-13 in the evening, but then Higgins found the extra gear he was looking for and pulled away to win. As I said, my expectations weren't all that high ahead of the match, but it ended up being one of the highlights of what I would regard as probably the most entertaining World Championship I have ever had the pleasure of watching.

    Of course the climax of the Higgins-Selby rivalry came two years later, when they met in the quarter-finals of the 2009 World Championship, this time as two of the very best players in the world. Selby was already at the kind of level that meant there wasn't a clear favourite in the match, and of course it did end up going all the way. Selby opened with three centuries, Higgins responded with some one-visit snooker of his own to take a 4-3 lead, and after that there was almost never more than a frame between them. Some of the tactical stuff was brilliant as well, probably the best match I have ever seen in that regard. For me that match was the real final that year, and it remains one of my all-time favourite matches. Higgins had a slight edge at that point, but since then things have slowly shifted in Selby's favour. Understandable of course, as Higgins is one of the game's veterans at this point, whereas Selby has now reached his absolute prime. And what a prime it is... Six years as world number one, with a chance to win his third World title in four years. If he wins here, he will have won the three biggest ranking titles of the season, plus the China Open which may very well be the fourth biggest, and he has a final in Shanghai to go with it as well. It would be the biggest domination snooker has seen since Mark Williams in 2003, and bigger than O'Sullivan and Higgins have ever produced in single seasons. I think Selby's will to win is unrivalled at this point in time, even in the China Open he was really up for it, despite all of his recent success. His game is extremely solid in all departments, he can win one-visit scoring duels like he did against O'Sullivan in the UK final, or he can win slow and tactical grinds, without ever losing his patience or composure. I think the 2007 final finished well after 1am CET, and I don't think Selby would particularly mind a repeat of that, because he has shown time and time again that he is the king of midnight snooker. At the same time, he could easily find his top scoring game and pull away to win much earlier.

    On the other hand, John Higgins really only has one gameplan. At his best, he plays a kind of "textbook" snooker, dominating the early safety in frames, then making strong scoring contributions whenever he gets in. Most of the best wins of his career have been very "clean", in the sense that the snooker was of a high quality and very enjoyable to watch. Sometimes the opponent has other ideas though, but Higgins has such a solid all round game that he can handle any situation, and his mental strength throughout his career has been on par with Selby's. I think most people are expecting him to lose this match. In all honesty, so do I, but how often does Higgins put in a poor performance in a major final? His win percentage is admirable, not just in finals, but converting semi-finals into titles as well. He lost 9-4 in the Scottish Open final this season, and I think that was the first time in many many years that he has lost by more than just a couple of frames. He will be up for this one, make no mistake. I just wonder how he will deal with being the underdog here, because in most finals he has played he was either a clear favourite or at least on par with his opponent, even during the last couple of years when his status in the game had declined a little. Also, does he have the stamina to put in a strong performance over two days? If he played like he did against Allen, I think he would be extremely tough to beat, but of course his performance against Hawkins was far away from that. I just hope that playing someone as strong as Selby will give him the boost of energy he needs to compete with him, because we know that Selby himself is pretty immune to fatigue these days, mental or physical...

    For the record, my prediction is that Selby will win 18-14, but as always, I'm just hoping for an all-time classic and hopefully a midnight finish. :smile:

    I don't know where you found the energy to write all that.

    Great post!

    Comment


    • Originally Posted by Odrl View Post
      Here we are then, only the World final remains...

      I don't watch the World Championship in the hope that any particular player wins, my only hope is to see snooker played at its highest possible level and to see a couple of matches that might live in the memory as all-time classics. Unfortunately the draw often works out in such a way that the final can be a bit of an anti-climax, but I think we've avoided that danger on this occasion. I guess the dream final before the Championship would have been Selby-Trump, a match between the dominant player of the season and his nearest (though still distant) rival. Well, I think Selby-Higgins comes pretty damn close, and it should be a great finale to what has been an interesting season.

      Whenever we talk about this pairing, we inevitably have to go back to the 2007 World final... I guess history will remember it as a final between two all-time greats, two players who will have won seven World titles between them after tomorrow, but of course things looked a little different ten years ago. It's funny if you think about it now, since 2007 isn't exactly ancient history, but at the time Higgins and Selby actually only had one World title between them. Selby in particular was a fairly unknown player on the big stage. He had reached a ranking final before, back when he was still a teenager, but he had a couple of fairly quiet seasons before 2007. He was basically a solid top32 player who was expected to eventually make some sort of breakthrough, but I don't think many people expected him to have the kind of career he has gone on to have. There isn't really a good comparison with anyone from this year's Championship, but I would say that Xiao Guodong perhaps comes closest. If I think about it now, I wasn't particularly excited before the 2007 final. The Championship as whole was a really good one that year, so I was afraid the final would be a little anti-climactic. I thought it would either be the favourite winning in unremarkable fashion, or a big underdog winning for the third year in a row (after Murphy and Dott), and the idea of another major shock didn't really appeal to me, because I wanted the top players to produce their best snooker in the most important tournament of the season. In all honesty, I wouldn't have given Selby the kind of credit he would have deserved had he won that year, I would have probably put it down to Higgins bottling it more than anything else. Back then I didn't really know what Selby was about. I'd seen him play lots of times, but he never really stood out to me as someone who had an exceptional safety game or was particularly strong mentally. He ended up playing a big part in that final though. It was Higgins who dominated the opening day, playing a superb second session, as he so often does, and pulling away to 12-4. But the following afternoon was a bit of a nightmare for him, a slow grind during which he seemed to spend most of the time in his chair looking half asleep, and Selby won all six frames that were played. It eventually went as close as 14-13 in the evening, but then Higgins found the extra gear he was looking for and pulled away to win. As I said, my expectations weren't all that high ahead of the match, but it ended up being one of the highlights of what I would regard as probably the most entertaining World Championship I have ever had the pleasure of watching.

      Of course the climax of the Higgins-Selby rivalry came two years later, when they met in the quarter-finals of the 2009 World Championship, this time as two of the very best players in the world. Selby was already at the kind of level that meant there wasn't a clear favourite in the match, and of course it did end up going all the way. Selby opened with three centuries, Higgins responded with some one-visit snooker of his own to take a 4-3 lead, and after that there was almost never more than a frame between them. Some of the tactical stuff was brilliant as well, probably the best match I have ever seen in that regard. For me that match was the real final that year, and it remains one of my all-time favourite matches. Higgins had a slight edge at that point, but since then things have slowly shifted in Selby's favour. Understandable of course, as Higgins is one of the game's veterans at this point, whereas Selby has now reached his absolute prime. And what a prime it is... Six years as world number one, with a chance to win his third World title in four years. If he wins here, he will have won the three biggest ranking titles of the season, plus the China Open which may very well be the fourth biggest, and he has a final in Shanghai to go with it as well. It would be the biggest domination snooker has seen since Mark Williams in 2003, and bigger than O'Sullivan and Higgins have ever produced in single seasons. I think Selby's will to win is unrivalled at this point in time, even in the China Open he was really up for it, despite all of his recent success. His game is extremely solid in all departments, he can win one-visit scoring duels like he did against O'Sullivan in the UK final, or he can win slow and tactical grinds, without ever losing his patience or composure. I think the 2007 final finished well after 1am CET, and I don't think Selby would particularly mind a repeat of that, because he has shown time and time again that he is the king of midnight snooker. At the same time, he could easily find his top scoring game and pull away to win much earlier.

      On the other hand, John Higgins really only has one gameplan. At his best, he plays a kind of "textbook" snooker, dominating the early safety in frames, then making strong scoring contributions whenever he gets in. Most of the best wins of his career have been very "clean", in the sense that the snooker was of a high quality and very enjoyable to watch. Sometimes the opponent has other ideas though, but Higgins has such a solid all round game that he can handle any situation, and his mental strength throughout his career has been on par with Selby's. I think most people are expecting him to lose this match. In all honesty, so do I, but how often does Higgins put in a poor performance in a major final? His win percentage is admirable, not just in finals, but converting semi-finals into titles as well. He lost 9-4 in the Scottish Open final this season, and I think that was the first time in many many years that he has lost by more than just a couple of frames. He will be up for this one, make no mistake. I just wonder how he will deal with being the underdog here, because in most finals he has played he was either a clear favourite or at least on par with his opponent, even during the last couple of years when his status in the game had declined a little. Also, does he have the stamina to put in a strong performance over two days? If he played like he did against Allen, I think he would be extremely tough to beat, but of course his performance against Hawkins was far away from that. I just hope that playing someone as strong as Selby will give him the boost of energy he needs to compete with him, because we know that Selby himself is pretty immune to fatigue these days, mental or physical...

      For the record, my prediction is that Selby will win 18-14, but as always, I'm just hoping for an all-time classic and hopefully a midnight finish. :smile:
      That makes 2 of us.

      As always Odrl...unrivalled!

      :snooker:

      Comment


      • 2017 World Snooker Championship Final

        Mark Selby (1) - John Higgins (6)



        Selby's way into the final:
        1st round: 13-2 over Fergal O'Brien
        2nd round: 13-6 over Xiao Guodong
        Quarterfinal: 13-3 over Marco Fu
        Semifinal: 17-15 over Ding Junhui

        Higgins' way into the final:
        1st round: 10-6 over Martin Gould
        2nd round: 13-9 over Mark Allen
        Quarterfinal: 13-6 over Kyren Wilson
        Semifinal: 17-8 over Barry Hawkins

        The big day has come. After the two most exciting snooker weeks of the year, the most important match of the season is looming. And this is a final as promising as there has been with the two maybe best all-around players the game has seen battling each other. It's the first time since 2009 that two former World Champions contest the final and while the 2014 final featured two greats of this wonderful sport, Selby didn't have those accolades back then. Also Ronnie O'Sullivan hadn't been world champion before his maiden final and title in 2001 against John Higgins. And even if you go back until the 1994 edition between Stephen Hendry and Jimmy White, who was in the final six times, but never won the title and was never world number one, the overall ranking of this pairing (though Hendry obviously is ahead of Selby and Higgins) might fall short of the meeting of the two greats this year.
        It's the first time in the Crucible Era that two multiple world champions meet in the biggest game of the year. And clearly you can't compare the "World Championships" in the time before the Crucible with the tournaments since.

        So it's already a historical final in many aspects. Also cause it is a final that we already saw once. But this was way back in 2007 under totally different circumstances. John Higgins was looking for a second world title, while Selby made his first big announcement on the scene, reaching the final as a qualifier. It was not really a surprise that Higgins won this final, that was closer than I expected back then, 18-13. You already could see some of the Snooker Selby would have been capable of. But to be honest I didn't think in 2007 he would become the player he is now.
        It was more clear to see two years later though, when they met again in Sheffield. And though it was only a quarterfinal, it was not only the "real" final of 2009 in my eyes, but still one of the best matches I've ever seen. Incredible quality and pure tension. Century breaks, some of the best tactical battles to ever been played and a deciding frame that enquired to re-racks before Higgins, still the better player at this point in time, won 13-12 and went on to celebrate his third world title. They have met a few times since, the most recent duel of note being at this seasons UK Championship, another match of great quality, that Selby won 6-5.

        Reading through this board it seems like a foregone conclusion to most of its members that the Englishman will also win this time. And indeed the tables turned much since their meeting in 2007 and even in 2009. While Higgins was the worlds best player back then, Selby was still a a work in progress. Now Selby is on the top of his game, while Higgins at 41 years is already over his zenith. But I wouldn't write off the Scotsman. Cause there is one other notion apart from having no really weaknesses those two players resemble very much. They are probably the two most mentally strong players on the tour, two heirs of Stephen Hendry in that regard and I can't imagine that Selby will blow out Higgins.

        Higgins has produced some absolute wonderful snooker this year, especially with his impressive win at the China Championship. He is already guaranteed to finish the year as the #2 ranked player behind his opponent of today and tomorrow and if the China Championship were a ranking event this year, the gap to Selby would be significant closer. And it's also notable that Higgins produced some of his best snooker in the last two weeks. I think he was the best player of the first two rounds, when he let dangerous qualifier Martin Gould no chance in a 10-6 victory and then beating Mark Allen 13-9. He also never was in danger against Kyren Wilson (13-6) and Barry Hawkins (17-8), but his level wasn't that high in those wins. His semifinal wasn't as exhausting as Selby's nailbiter over Ding, so he might have a slight advantage also here. But on the other hand Selby, who is 8 years younger, of course is the much fitter player and it will be interesting to see if this will come into play and some lacking concentration will force Higgins into mistakes.

        He can't allow to many, cause Selby - unlike Hawkins - will use those invitations to win frames. Maybe Higgins is a bit fresher this afternoon and he would be well advised to find an early lead. Cause once Selby gets ahead a few frames himself I think Higgins will find it pretty difficult to come back. Though I'm sure he won't succumb to the pressure with his mental strength, experience and still great all-around game. Ding has shown how you can bring Selby to the brink of defeat and if Higgins is more clinical in using his chances, who knows?

        But of course Selby is the favorite here. He won four tournaments this year, within the UK Championship and the International Championship, which are the two most prestigious ranking events after the World Championship. If he wins a fifth title he would equalize the record of Stephen Hendry (1990/91) and Ding Junhui (2013/14), though both, especially Hendry, had far less tournaments in their seasons. But neither won the World AND the UK Championship in the same year (Hendry accomplished this feat on three other occasions though). Selby's season would probably be the best since Mark Williams in 2003 and if he wins his amount of points in the world ranking would be far more than the double the points of Higgins in second place. This also shows how dominant the Englishman, whose only defeat in a lengthy match this season came in the Shanghai Masters final with a 6-10 to Ding Junhui, has been this year. My pick: 18-15 Selby.

        Comment


        • Originally Posted by Kargetina View Post
          Selby has been my favorite player for 10 years and his COME ONE yesterday was already one of my favorite moments of him as a fan...but seeing Ronnie's sycophants seethe has rocketed that moment straight to the top.

          People acting like robots when they win World Championships is what holds snooker back not acts of passion. It showed how much Selby wanted to win, and how many emotions, hormones and thoughts are boiling inside you in such critical moments.

          Robertson did the same exact thing against Fu in a match he eventually lost but there was half the outrage. Why? Because he didn't beat Ronnie in a World final. Since 2014 the hate for Selby has been multiplied tenfold, and Ronnie's inability to do much at the crucible since then just re-enforces that.

          Selby playing smart bothers them, Selby playing attacking bothers them, watching at his box bothers them, his hair, Selby could save 5 kids from a burning building and the response to that would probably be ''Yes, but that ****** didn't stop the war in Syria so screw him''.
          His hairstyle sucks
          Blown away

          Comment


          • Gotta love Hendry, "I used to find, when I was playing in world finals, that....". Virgo, silence.

            I can't believe Higgins left that red on.

            -
            The fast and the furious,
            The slow and labourious,
            All of us, glorious parts of the whole!

            Comment


            • Originally Posted by Kargetina View Post
              Selby could save 5 kids from a burning building and the response to that would probably be ''Yes, but that ****** didn't stop the war in Syria so screw him''.
              Don't be silly. He just did it to disrupt the flow of play and break his opponent's momentum.

              Comment


              • Higgins 18-16 over Selby

                Comment


                • BBC saying it's brand new cloth but Eurosport saying it's the cloth from semis they agreed to leave on?

                  Comment


                  • Originally Posted by PatBlock View Post
                    Gotta love Hendry, "I used to find, when I was playing in world finals, that....". Virgo, silence. -
                    Exactly. This is what makes Hendry such a great commentator.
                    He gives real insights into the psychology of matchplay.

                    Comment


                    • I start to watch the final like if Higgins has no real options to win it. Maybe I´m wrong, even after this Higgins´140, but this is my feeling

                      Comment


                      • Originally Posted by cesard View Post
                        I start to watch the final like if Higgins has no real options to win it. Maybe I´m wrong, even after this Higgins´140, but this is my feeling
                        I think Higgins could win if he plays near his best in every session, but that's a big ask.

                        Comment


                        • Forget about Vickie. Mrs. Higgins is a cutie.

                          Comment


                          • Great steal from JH, Selby feeling the pressure now, 6 - 2 or 5 - 3, massive frame....

                            -
                            The fast and the furious,
                            The slow and labourious,
                            All of us, glorious parts of the whole!

                            Comment


                            • Not sure that was the right shot by Selby , small gap to get the white through . And it didn't look like it had the pace to get up for the blue .
                              Still trying to pot as many balls as i can !

                              Comment


                              • Wow! I don't think anyone entertained the possibility of Higgins running away with the match.

                                In a sense I think that the final is very interestingly poised now.

                                Edit: I may have spoken too soon, Selby only needs one snooker.

                                Comment

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