Ranking points this season

[noel]

[QUOTE=The_Teach;419525]incentivised QUOTE]

Teach... you should get 500 Posting Points for using that WTF word!


=o)

Noel

[Templeton Peck]

The problem is that ranking points are being used to blackmail players into attending low money events. Take Bahrain for instance: someone like Ronnie is going to fly first class, stay in a 5 star hotel and probably have his own personal valet and a minder. He also has to pay 15% of his earnings to his management. Yet the event only offered a top prize of 45k. In all likelihood a venture like Bahrain would have cost him about 2.5k for first class return ticket, and probably another 1k for two economy class tickets for his minder and valet, so 3.5k in total. A five star suite probably would have cost about another 2k for a week's stay. His valet and minder probably would have had a twin room at the same hotel, so say 3k in hotel costs so that's 6.5k in total. Given the fact his management would take a 15% fee, he would need to earn at least 7.5k just to break even! Anything above his expenditure he had to pay 40% income tax on too. That's fine if he wins the event, but Ronnie has to make it to the semi-finals just to break even - if he goes out before then he's paying for the privilege of playing in the event!

That's why he hates overseas events. If he doesn't have to fly he can shave 3.5k off his expenditure and it only costs him 4k to play in the event which he can usually recoup by just winning his first round match. It's just not financially viable for him to enter some of these events but he is blackmailed by the ranking points allocation. He tends to skip Malta and China because they are traditionally low money events, but he has to find a balance between sacrificing ranking points and incurring a financial loss. That's why I'm all for certain promotional players to receive appearance money. If you gave Ronnie 10k to cover his base costs then he would enter all the events. He is snooker's biggest asset and it's about time the WSA started treating him as such.

[noel]

The problem is that ranking points are being used to blackmail players into attending low money events. Take Bahrain for instance: someone like Ronnie is going to fly first class, stay in a 5 star hotel and probably have his own personal valet and a minder. He also has to pay 15% of his earnings to his management. Yet the event only offered a top prize of 45k. In all likelihood a venture like Bahrain would have cost him about 2.5k for first class return ticket, and probably another 1k for two economy class tickets for his minder and valet, so 3.5k in total. A five star suite probably would have cost about another 2k for a week's stay. His valet and minder probably would have had a twin room at the same hotel, so say 3k in hotel costs so that's 6.5k in total. Given the fact his management would take a 15% fee, he would need to earn at least 7.5k just to break even! Anything above his expenditure he had to pay 40% income tax on too. That's fine if he wins the event, but Ronnie has to make it to the semi-finals just to break even - if he goes out before then he's paying for the privilege of playing in the event!

That's why he hates overseas events. If he doesn't have to fly he can shave 3.5k off his expenditure and it only costs him 4k to play in the event which he can usually recoup by just winning his first round match. It's just not financially viable for him to enter some of these events but he is blackmailed by the ranking points allocation. He tends to skip Malta and China because they are traditionally low money events, but he has to find a balance between sacrificing ranking points and incurring a financial loss. That's why I'm all for certain promotional players to receive appearance money. If you gave Ronnie 10k to cover his base costs then he would enter all the events. He is snooker's biggest asset and it's about time the WSA started treating him as such.

Thank you Peck.
Very realistic.
Maybe because we both see this from a distance I can totally agree.

Tiger Woods gets a $3,000,000. appearance fee because he is worth it.
He has, himself, increased the value of golf beyond anything anyone could have imagined before him...
fan base, eyeballs at tournaments and on TV, sponsorship, prize money.

So far [ and time may be running out ]WSA has missed utilizing their greatest asset to grow snooker... Ronnie O'Sullivan.


=o)

Noel

[Migtsf]

We can say that O’Sullivan is being blackmailed by the ranking point allocation, but when he doesn’t show up, that attitude can also be regarded as him blackmailing the WSA.

Anyway, does anyone here know for sure if he (O’Sullivan) and some other players don’t receive appearance money and/or get their expenses paid when they have to travel outside Britain to play in ranking events?

[Monique]

They don't recieve appearance money. And BTW it was Stephen Hendry in 2005 who complained about not getting any, when he supported Ronnie's decision not to enter the China Open. He said he would do the same if he was in the same situation regarding rankings (at the time) and that they, the top players, are the ones attracting the audience and "making the game" and as such they should be paid for it.

I wonder how Temp knows so well about Ronnie's luxury tastes BTW ... he hides them well

[Migtsf]

the top players, are the ones attracting the audience and "making the game"

I understand their concerns but they seem to forget that the game made them in the first place. What would they be today without it?

Monique, are you really sure they don't get any financial compensation? Not even from the local sponsors?

[Odrl]

I must oppose this appearance money business as well. Players are guaranteed a certain amount of prize money for losing in (their) first round. If there was money available to award appearance fees, I'd rather see the prize money for each round increase. That way there would be more incentive for players to attend events, and there would be less financial risk should they go out early. But that's all a pointless discussion as the money is obviously not available.

But in principle, you should get money for success not for popularity. From the governing body at least. If you want to cash in on your popularity and get more personal sponsors and stuff, feel free to do so. As it's always been the case.

[The_Teach]

I agree with you Templeton over the international events in some respect.

But my post was more to do with awarding ranking points for smaller events that are already in the UK. Whether the top 16 turn up would be their choice but it would be a huge opportunity for lower ranked players to pick up much needed points.

And NOEL: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/incentivized ;-)

[Monique]

I understand their concerns but they seem to forget that the game made them in the first place. What would they be today without it?

Monique, are you really sure they don't get any financial compensation? Not even from the local sponsors?

I'm sure they don't get appearance money. If they get money from their sponsors for promo work that's nothing to do with it, it's private arrangement.
And I'm sorry players are more important than managers or organisers. It was Alex Higgins who set the game alight with the way he played, not any organiser or promoter. The players make the game. The organisers then can facilitate things and help promote it but basically without the players they are nowhere. The players make the game - they invest thousand of hours and millions of balls in practice, often since early boyhood - and they owe nothing to nobody.

[GOMH71]

Templeton. If I may:

"someone like Ronnie is going to fly first class, stay in a 5 star hotel and probably have his own personal valet and a minder. He also has to pay 15% of his earnings to his management"

In that instant you have just shown how little grasp you have on the game of Pro Snooker. Not one of your comments is remotely close to the reality. You're just playing "Fantasy Snooker" aren't you ? ...

[JanieWatkins]

Templeton. If I may:

"someone like Ronnie is going to fly first class, stay in a 5 star hotel and probably have his own personal valet and a minder. He also has to pay 15% of his earnings to his management"

In that instant you have just shown how little grasp you have on the game of Pro Snooker. Not one of your comments is remotely close to the reality. You're just playing "Fantasy Snooker" aren't you ? ...

Ah GOMH you beat me to it and saved me the bother of shooting down Temp's fantasies in flames!!

[Templeton Peck]

Who needs fantasies when snooker is the only sport in the world where you get your balls cleaned by a man-servant?

[Monique]

Who needs fantasies when snooker is the only sport in the world where you get your balls cleaned by a man-servant?

You? (teasing, teasing )

[Migtsf]

Monique, my question was not about personal sponsors and promotional work. I was thinking of event sponsors like Roewe for the Shanghai Masters, for instance. They would be one party who would greatly benefit from top players participating, so maybe they attract them some way, with money or other things.

It’s also a bit confusing to me to hear that players have to pay for all their expenses when they go to events outside Britain, when they all seem to stay in the same hotel and they even are all transported by buses from there to the venue sometimes.

I mean, if they were there totally on their own, would all of them stay at the same hotel and travel by bus to the venue?

Regarding who made what, or what made who, what you say about A.Higgins is probably true, but if the BBC hasn’t pick up the game like they did, we probably wouldn’t be here.

Players are important, yes, but let’s not get carried away. A.Higgins is long gone from the tour and the game is still standing. I’m not sure I can say the same thing in case the BBC decides to pull the plug on the green baize.

[dannyd0g]

Migtsf - They dont have to pay their expenses for overseas events - that is provided they dont claim for valets and minders i would imagine

General point - With 25 % of the top 16 not attending last year i guess something had to be done - upping the points seems the best solution. Forcing the hands of people like Ronnie to not only make sure he attends, but also that he takes the event seriously enough to care whether he wins or looses.