Wenbo whitewashed Bond in a bit over an hour 5-0

[poolqjunkie]

After whitewashing Peter Ebdon, Wenbo just whitewashed another "old fox" Nigel Bond in the qualifier 5-0.

He made 6 50+ breaks in 5 frames, they are 59, 74, 78, 78, 67-- with a 109 total clearance to end the match 5-0.

Nigel Bond made 46 points in total in all 5 frames which lasted only a bit over an hour.

[calebk]

Think it certainly disproves Ebdon of match fixing. Unless Bond is involved too But Wenbo will definitely have more days like this. His game is all out attack.

[poolqjunkie]

I recall him saying in a post match interview with Higgins, that he felt right when he went for those pots--which he missed and cost him dearly. But he stressed that he would go for them again if they "felt" right. No regret there.

Perhaps he is just really confidence with his potting, trusting his ability to pot a long ball and then run the table to win the matches.

The players have really raised the standard of long potting these days. May be Wenbo represents a new breed of snooker players of a new generation? It does seems to me that the game is moving more and more toward attacking the balls and clearing the table whenever possible.

[Monique]

After whitewashing Peter Ebdon, Wenbo just whitewashed another "old fox" Nigel Bond in the qualifier 5-0.

He made 6 50+ breaks in 5 frames, they are 59, 74, 78, 78, 67-- with a 109 total clearance to end the match 5-0.

Nigel Bond made 46 points in total in all 5 frames which lasted only a bit over an hour.

I'm not denying that Wenbo is an outstanding potter. Yes when everything goes in and he keeps his opponent in his seat he's capable of doing this. And Nigel Bond has hardly been "flying" since the beginning of the season. But I stand my ground and invite you to watch the footage of the Wenbo-Higgins match in the NIT. Wenbo did play stupidly on that occasion. He played all out attack when obviously things were not getting his way. He did not revert to anything more reasonable or more cautious, as he should have to keep his chances alive. And it's not as if Higgins was brilliant... far from it; he was just patient. Wenbo is 21, not 16 or 17, so this behaviour can't be put on his very young age. Luca Brecel (13) and Julius Crauls (15), I saw in the Belgian Open this week-end, have a far more mature approach, and would probably have served Higgins a better game on that day. I think Maguire, Stevens and Day would agree with me here

Think it certainly disproves Ebdon of match fixing. Unless Bond is involved too But Wenbo will definitely have more days like this. His game is all out attack.

No it does not disprove anything. The match fixing suspicion did not araise from the result in itself but from abnormal betting patterns for that match and that result. Once again don't get me wrong, I'm not stating that Ebdon did fix that match, even if I expressed some reservation about his ethics. I still believe the most likely scenario to be that some insider information about Ebdon lack of form and/or practice must have leaked from one of the players entourage (they practice together) and spread. And the odds for 5-0 were far more attractive than for 5-1.

[calebk]

I don't read up a lot on the stories or watch much snooker since it's hard to come by here so I'll be in the dark on a lot of things. Most of the stuff I hear is from this forum. So now that you mention all this, it certainly seems that there was something dodgy about the game. However like a lot of the opinions on the other thread on this topic, I doubt Ebdon would've fixed it as I think he's far too smart for that and it's not worth risking his stellar career and reputation for it.

[wildJONESEYE]

i think whats clear Wenbo can do this sort of thing to anyone.....if they let him..

Higgins played to his weakneses and Wenbo couldnt deal with it....

[dannyd0g]

i think whats clear Wenbo can do this sort of thing to anyone.....if they let him..

Higgins played to his weakneses and Wenbo couldnt deal with it....

Yeah, it looks like he has the game to blast away all but the very top players with his sheer all out attack. It doesnt work against the likes of Higgins and Ronnie though...

[Ellena]

Me likes Wenbo's style...and, as seen already, its working sometimes ,tho its obvious he lacks a lot of competitional experience. Ding had such a style couple of years ago.. fast playing , attacking all the time and cause his potting was working perfectly at the time he got few titles under his belt. he slowed down a bit lately, especially after the Masters episode.. Wenbo still has a lot to learn so im sure his style will "polish" in time.

[Robert602]

He's an exciting player, no doubt.

I remember when Terry Griffiths was coaching Hendry in a bad patch a few years ago. Many commentators were criticising Hendry, saying he should play a tighter game when the pots aren't going in. Terry defended him by pointing out that unlike some other players (Terry included) Hendry wasn't able to win matches defensively. The attacking play and long pots 'got his adrenaline pumping' and only then was he able to score heavily at short range. Without that he couldn't be a danger to the top players, and so even when he was missing and gifting frames he felt it was worth persisting to try to get himself going.

Perhaps Wenbo feels the same. Going for everything against Higgins he had a chance of winning, but risked heavy defeat. In the end he suffered the latter. If he'd played Higgins at his own game he would've certainly avoided embarrassment, but would also almost certainly have lost.

Wenbo knows his own game better than any of us. I'll be disappointed if he doesn't find a way to adapt and deepen his game within a couple of seasons (as Hendry has) but that's a matter for the practice table. I can't criticise him for playing to his only strength when he's facing a better player in an important match.

[archalf1471]

wenbo is great for the game. from what i have seen of him he is exciting, but as some people have touched on he does need a good all round game, you just can't simply can't expect to win tournements against the really top guys by playing the way he does...It will win him matches certainly but the flamboyant, inspirational devil may care style of play is very difficult to kee pup over a long period of time.

Also the long game is so much better now ( someone did allude to it in an earlier post) ...One of my favourite world champs was 1986 when Jo Johnson won, and the long game that he dispayed in that fortnight, I thought was as good as it gets but totally different ball game now.....

[Templeton Peck]

At the moment wenbo's game is regularly getting him to tournaments, so if it aint broke don't fix it. He might need to adapt his game in the future but at the moment it's taking him to where he wants to go. If he keeps qualifying he'll eventually get into the top 16 which is probably more his aim than winning tournaments at the moment.

[poolqjunkie]

He's an exciting player, no doubt.

I remember when Terry Griffiths was coaching Hendry in a bad patch a few years ago. Many commentators were criticising Hendry, saying he should play a tighter game when the pots aren't going in. Terry defended him by pointing out that unlike some other players (Terry included) Hendry wasn't able to win matches defensively. The attacking play and long pots 'got his adrenaline pumping' and only then was he able to score heavily at short range. Without that he couldn't be a danger to the top players, and so even when he was missing and gifting frames he felt it was worth persisting to try to get himself going.

Perhaps Wenbo feels the same. Going for everything against Higgins he had a chance of winning, but risked heavy defeat. In the end he suffered the latter. If he'd played Higgins at his own game he would've certainly avoided embarrassment, but would also almost certainly have lost.

Wenbo knows his own game better than any of us. I'll be disappointed if he doesn't find a way to adapt and deepen his game within a couple of seasons (as Hendry has) but that's a matter for the practice table. I can't criticise him for playing to his only strength when he's facing a better player in an important match.

You have articulated what i wanted to say far better than i ever could.

From the interview post Higgins match, he said he just felt right going for the shots which he missed. What looked like a crazy shot to some people might be a high percentage shot to him. High percentage shot is not a certainty and he will still miss them--but he felt that they were worth going for.

I remember watching ROS in one match when he his long pot success was very low, like less than 30% or something like that--I mean truly non Ronnie. But he was till going for long pots after pots, some of them very tough when he had to raise the butt of his cue or shooting from the cushion. He missed a lot of shots, but then he started to make them at the last few frames and won.

That is why i strongly disagreed with a poster in the Ebdon thread when she called Wenbo a player with "no brain" saying he could certainly not win against an old fox. Facts are that she is wrong as he is winning.

In order to beat a player like Wenbo, just playing safe and be patient is not going to work. One needs to display outstanding break building and potting power, with very intelligent safies to force Wenbo to keep going for nothing but tough long pots anf infally make a mistake. When the mistake comes up, one needs to capatalize it fully, hopfully win the frame in that visit.

In my opinion, Wenbo did not loss to Higgins and ROS because of his all out attack, but because ROS and Higgins were able to score very hevaily everytime they had a chance, and they also were able to pot just as well as Wenbo, while trapping Wenbo to give up opportunities.

I think Wenbo knew that he could not out smart these top players, so he wanted to win frames in one visit using his super potting power to out play his opponent. That is probably the smart thing to do. Kind of remind me how Neil Robertson was playing last year.

[Monique]

That poster being me ... I just have one thing to say: get the footage of the match and watch it!

Higgins was not even playing well ... and he won 5-1!

As for the match from Ronnie you're commenting about. I think I know wich one you mean. Yes he kept going. But his post-match comments were that although he knew he wasn't performing with long potting and didn't feel at ease with it, he still had to go for them because the way his opponent played.

I don't think there was anything in JH play that forced Wenbo to play like he did on that particular day. Higgins was far from his best and certainly not "scoring heavily"
Frame scores were
John Higgins 5-1 Liang Wenbo 87(53)-1, 71(38)-43(41), 12-69(69), 93(68)-12, 64(36)-37(36), 69-15.
Highest break was 69 and was Wenbo's.

[spike]

Liang Wenbo's style of play is exciting and there is no doubting that, but in the next two or three years we're likely to see him take on less risky shots but then maybe not. I hope he continues to play attacking Snooker for as long as possible as he certainly is an exciting draw in the game!

[Robert602]

I don't think there was anything in JH play that forced Wenbo to play like he did on that particular day. Higgins was far from his best and certainly not "scoring heavily"
Frame scores were
John Higgins 5-1 Liang Wenbo 87(53)-1, 71(38)-43(41), 12-69(69), 93(68)-12, 64(36)-37(36), 69-15.
Highest break was 69 and was Wenbo's.

I agree with that, Higgins didn't do anything special to beat Wenbo.

But I have watched that match twice and Wenbo was playing the same shots that have have worked for him for months. You can't blame him for playing that way at least at the start of the match.

I think where we disagree is that you believe Wenbo should've switched to a more conventional 'B game' when he realised his potting wasn't working. As I see it that would be playing right into Higgins' hands. At best it would be damage limitation, but from behind he surely wouldn't have won. IMO his best chance to turn it around at the time was, odd as it might sound, to keep playing exactly the same way - his way.

Just looking back through the stats, here are Wenbo's results in the World's, NIT and Grand Prix (he hasn't played in Shanghai yet):

Beat Woollaston 10-3 (Last 96)
Beat Lawler 10-6
Beat Gilbert 10-3
Beat McCulloch 10-5
Beat Doherty 10-5
Beat Swail 13-12
Lost O'Sullivan 13-7 (Quarter Final)

Beat Roe 5-0 (Last 64)
Beat Davis 5-3
Beat Ebdon 5-0
Lost Higgins 5-1 (Last 16)

Beat Grace 5-3
Beat Bond 5-0 (Last 48)
(Will play O'Sullivan at the venue)