Ptc4

[wildJONESEYE]

It was just an opinion...i wasnt arguing....just telling what i believe and that is that.

and its a observation i have that more than any player ever Mark Selby for whatever reason has really got under the skin of Ronnie fans .

[nrage]

and its a observation i have that more than any player ever Mark Selby for whatever reason has really got under the skin of Ronnie fans .

I like watching them both play, but for different reasons.

I think the reason that some Ronnie fans dislike Mark is that while he can play the same style of game as Ronnie (albeit not as well, but who can? .. perhaps Hendry used to once) he can also play a more 'negative' style. I personally don't call it this, but everyone knows what I mean so I use the term.

Ronnie never plays a negative style of snooker, he will always play attacking/exciting snooker. So, fans who like attacking/exciting snooker and dislike watching a negative style will tend be Ronnie fans, and will dislike Mark when he plays a negative style. Those same fans tend to think that negative snooker is almost 'cheating' somehow. The truth is, to be a great snooker player you have to be able to deal with any opponent, playing any style, permitted by the rules, period.

The truth is, a 'negative' style does win Mark matches, especially if/when he's not potting to his usual standard for example. In contrast there are players like Ronnie who do not/will not change their style, and they tend to lose matches where they aren't playing to their usual standard, unless they suddenly find their form at some point and even then it may be too late to come back.

So, you can understand why a fan who likes attacking snooker, dislikes negative snooker and/or thinks negative snooker is 'cheating' will like Ronnie and hate Mark. But, the good news is that there are a lot of different players and as fans we can pick and choose who we like to watch.

It's like choosing a wine to drink, there are many styles/flavours to pick from, so drink the one you like and ignore the rest. But, perhaps every now and again it might be a good idea to try something different and make an effort to appreciate it for what it is.

... I think it is possible Mark would be a better player, and have won more titles if he was better at choosing when to switch modes. Higgins seems to be the master of this .. I am remembering the final frame he played against Judd Trump in this years World Champs where he played 'negative' snooker but picked his moment to switch and attack and it paid off. If he'd missed that pot however, what would we have said about his choice then?

[trains]

I dont think theres anything wrong with Selbys record or style of play its just a testament to the strength of field vying for the bacon,example Jan 09 Masters,J Higgins was bang in form and Selby played him off the table in the semi,few months later Higgins edged a decider in the world quarters,this isnt 1994 with patsys to bolster your record.

[nrage]

I dont think theres anything wrong with Selbys record or style of play its just a testament to the strength of field vying for the bacon,example Jan 09 Masters,J Higgins was bang in form and Selby played him off the table in the semi,few months later Higgins edged a decider in the world quarters,this isnt 1994 with patsys to bolster your record.

I agree, Selby is playing well and has a decent record to show for it. I just think he could be better, and have a better record, if he picked his moment to change tactic from his 'negative' mode, to his attacking mode. I think Higgins does this better than Selby and it is one reason why he wins the bigger titles. Mark Williams is another who is very good at adapting his game to suit his form on the day, and also the match situation. I think Selby isn't quite as good as either of them. That said, he is better than many others at this side of the game. Selby is one of my favourite players

[trains]

I agree, Selby is playing well and has a decent record to show for it. I just think he could be better, and have a better record, if he picked his moment to change tactic from his 'negative' mode, to his attacking mode. I think Higgins does this better than Selby and it is one reason why he wins the bigger titles. Mark Williams is another who is very good at adapting his game to suit his form on the day, and also the match situation. I think Selby isn't quite as good as either of them. That said, he is better than many others at this side of the game. Selby is one of my favourite players

I just think theres some pot attempts with the game on the line e.g. the loss to Ding at the worlds 4 months back thats been any difference,just as Ding missed v Judd following match,or ROS missed consecutive in the balance blues on sunday,toss up really who wins these tournies,its all good :-)

[wildJONESEYE]

I just think theres some pot attempts with the game on the line e.g. the loss to Ding at the worlds 4 months back thats been any difference,just as Ding missed v Judd following match,or ROS missed consecutive in the balance blues on sunday,toss up really who wins these tournies,its all good :-)

there has been times where hes been guilty of defending against players and hes come unstuck but i dont think you can level that at him last season or this hes just lost matches and by criticising him for not winning as much as he should is virtually saying other players are crap.

[nrage]

It's always going to be impossible to rewind the clock, make a different choice, and see where it goes. But, there are some situations where I think Mark continues to play defensively, where Higgins (for example) would have started to attack. Usually it's a single tough pot, which Higgins backs himself to make, and in the same situation Selby plays safe and waits for a better chance. It's all about having confidence and backing yourself, and by doing so closing a match out earlier and giving your opponent less chance to beat you. I think it's a very fine line, but I suspect Selby could, in some situations attack earlier and back himself more. I think he has the skill, he just needs the confidence.

[ace man]

If Selby doesn't win one World Championships title at least in his career, I'll be very surprised.

As for fanboy remarks about Selby being like this or like that, I don't take much notice. Simply put, fanboys (or dare I say antifanboys lol) of any player, but especially those of Ronnie are far too biased, too emotional and at times not very realistic.

[wildJONESEYE]

It's always going to be impossible to rewind the clock, make a different choice, and see where it goes. But, there are some situations where I think Mark continues to play defensively, where Higgins (for example) would have started to attack. Usually it's a single tough pot, which Higgins backs himself to make, and in the same situation Selby plays safe and waits for a better chance. It's all about having confidence and backing yourself, and by doing so closing a match out earlier and giving your opponent less chance to beat you. I think it's a very fine line, but I suspect Selby could, in some situations attack earlier and back himself more. I think he has the skill, he just needs the confidence.

thats the thing he has made a conscious effort to do that and has been doing so but the prejadice does not allow people to see it.

as a Breakbuilder only Ding and Ronnie id rate Better than Him ...Tacticly hes on a par with anyone.

[nrage]

thats the thing he has made a conscious effort to do that and has been doing so but the prejadice does not allow people to see it.

as a Breakbuilder only Ding and Ronnie id rate Better than Him ...Tacticly hes on a par with anyone.

Don't get me wrong. I also rate Selby as an all round excellent player. I expect he will win the Worlds, hopefully soon. The first time I saw him play was when he lost to Higgins (4 years back?) in the final. I am hopeful for Ding too, who I think is definitely hitting his best form, especially under pressure.

I am not saying Selby isn't good tactically, I'm saying there is some room for improvement. For example I rate Higgins and Williams higher on tactics, and if we were to do a snooker top trumps both of them would have a higher tactics score. I think the reason is that Selby needs to back himself more and take a few more chances. Sure, chances can backfire, but I reckon he has the game to take a few more, and that they will (on balance) pay off. I think to win a major title, with the field being as close as it is, you have to take these sort of chances. Like Higgins did against Trump, to win the final last season.

[wildJONESEYE]

Don't get me wrong. I also rate Selby as an all round excellent player. I expect he will win the Worlds, hopefully soon. The first time I saw him play was when he lost to Higgins (4 years back?) in the final. I am hopeful for Ding too, who I think is definitely hitting his best form, especially under pressure.

I am not saying Selby isn't good tactically, I'm saying there is some room for improvement. For example I rate Higgins and Williams higher on tactics, and if we were to do a snooker top trumps both of them would have a higher tactics score. I think the reason is that Selby needs to back himself more and take a few more chances. Sure, chances can backfire, but I reckon he has the game to take a few more, and that they will (on balance) pay off. I think to win a major title, with the field being as close as it is, you have to take these sort of chances. Like Higgins did against Trump, to win the final last season.

but theres room for improvement with Ronnie aswell.

every player has strengths and weaknesses, its been 2 years since Ronnie has reached a Ranking final Selby has reached 2 in that time.

[wildJONESEYE]

BTW i dont really count the BO5 World Open

[nrage]

but theres room for improvement with Ronnie aswell.

every player has strengths and weaknesses, its been 2 years since Ronnie has reached a Ranking final Selby has reached 2 in that time.

Agreed on both counts. I am not a Ronnie fan boy BTW

[trains]

there has been times where hes been guilty of defending against players and hes come unstuck but i dont think you can level that at him last season or this hes just lost matches and by criticising him for not winning as much as he should is virtually saying other players are crap.

Was it either Ronnie or Higgins a couple years back who said a match with Selby is 50/50 now,nuff said.

[arbitrage]

Was it either Ronnie or Higgins a couple years back who said a match with Selby is 50/50 now,nuff said.

in his post match interview after the 2011 WSC final, john higgins said playing selby 'is like torture' and 'you're waiting around (all the time)'. that was an off the cuff honest comment and a much fairer assessment of why many players (like ronnie) dislike playing with mark selby.