Shanghai Masters 2011 - Discussion

[PatBlock]

For those of you that saw the incident, which ball do you think was hit first? It looked like the pink actually moved first to me, but the angle the red went off at does seem to suggest otherwise. What do you think?

-

[scapps42]

To me it looked like the cue ball hit the pink and red simultaneously which i believe is a foul? , it seems like the players and ref were looking at the same tv replay picture as us at home ,and that camera was directly above the table about 10 foot in the air so it was impossible to tell for sure from that camera .

I think the ref decided to call it red first because it was an easier option for him . Don't know what would of happened if was decided that it was the pink and they couldn't replace the balls because of lack of tv monitors etc, disgraceful really considering its a ranking final deciding who's gonna be ranked no 1

[paulb]

I think its pretty clear there was significant doubt (the referee clearly said his decision was based on the direction the red took) and really the rules should give clear guidance on what happens in that situation.

It's strange that it was originally called a foul and miss (my understanding of what I heard on Eurosport player was that Selby initially conceded the foul) and that they could use the tv to overturn that, but couldn't have used it to replace the balls! Again surely there is a need for guidelines - either the tv can be used, or can't.

[trains]

For those of you that saw the incident, which ball do you think was hit first? It looked like the pink actually moved first to me, but the angle the red went off at does seem to suggest otherwise. What do you think?-

Just seen it for the first time,its only an issue cos Williams didnt have an easy starter,questionable sportsmanship 1 of 2 :-)

[arbitrage]

For those of you that saw the incident, which ball do you think was hit first? It looked like the pink actually moved first to me, but the angle the red went off at does seem to suggest otherwise. What do you think?

-

the pink moved first. my commentary is the same as the one in the description of this video:

http://www.youtube.com/my_videos?feature=mhee

[jrc750]

Definitely red 1st

[sigsky]

I watched the replays very carefully and I believe the red moved first. But I'm not sure and I don't believe anyone could be sure. Mark Williams behavior after the decision was unprofessional, unsportsmanlike and a detriment to an already tainted sport. At a minimum, he owes an apology to the referee, Mark Selby, fans in Shanghai, and snooker fans around the world. At a maximum, perhaps some fine would be in order. A mental heath checkup would be in order regardless.

[DandyA]

well I give 100% support and a lot of respect to both Eiran Williams and Mark Selby on this - Eiran said, quite reasonably, he wasn't sure and Selby said he was quite happy to accept a foul and a miss (although presumably equally unsure) so that was what was called ...

it was only when a replay was found (which seemed to be at Mark Williams request) that the doubt crept in and to my mind, Eiran Williams final decision is quite right ... certainly not a simultaneous hit, in my view, red first - it's difficult to be totally sure as TV is 25 frames per second and the contact is mid-frame but that isn't the point ...

whilst Eiran was initially happy to call foul and a miss because Mark Selby accepted it, the replay by no means confirms that and since the ref can only call a foul if he sees it, Eiran quite rightly changes his mind - it appears to him (and me) a fair shot ...

so I say very good refereeing - he admitted he couldn't tell at full speed in real-time, he took the view of both players and looked at the replay and made his decision ... also full marks to Mark Selby for saying he was quite happy to concede a foul and miss even though he was presumably unsure, that's fine sportsmanship ...

I'm surprised Mark Williams appears to be making such a fuss about it, it appeared to me to be a good example of the true sportsmanship of snooker, playing the game with comradarie whereby it's the game that's important ...

[2man]

red first. it's hard from MW's viewing angle to determine which ball first, and the table top angle is the best way to prove this, however, no "freeze frame" feature can't be accepted in now-a-day...

watch video below (5:58)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISOq3...&feature=share

[poolqjunkie]

From the way the pink ball travelled and how it moved much faster than the red it seemed to me the pink was hit first, which I believe was what the ref used to make his call as well.
But there was also the chance of the cue ball very lightly brushed the red first before it striked the pink almost full in the face from the video.
What is the ruling on two balls being striked at the same time? It is not a foul if I understand the rule correctly, is it? Perhaps that is what Erian based his decision on?

[HunRon]

Another lucky victory for selby, well done the jester.

i remembered the 2008 welsh open final after frame 13. if selby missed the ball, he had a luck and Ronnie didnt seeing anything.
Like this final. One of the luckiest hit&hope ever.

[Looki]

As much as I would've hoped Williams to win, the accident in the 17th frame didn't prevent him to win it. It put him off a bit, for sure. He made a bad choice by attacking the red after the decision was made. But then he had a clear chance (nobody could've hoped easier) to nick it in the next frame. So in my view he threw it away. He's got only himself to blaim and I'm certain he's first to admit it if he's honest to himself.

[nrage]

Another lucky victory for selby, well done the jester.

i remembered the 2008 welsh open final after frame 13. if selby missed the ball, he had a luck and Ronnie didnt seeing anything.
Like this final. One of the luckiest hit&hope ever.

Lucky? I'm not sure I agree with that. Didn't he come from several frames down to win? (I admit I didn't see the match - was mad busy last weekend..).

[spike]

It's ridiculous to say Selby was lucky! Selby as usual showed true grit and guile, which is his hallmark. To win frame 17 and then the next two frames for victory, is a typical example of how cool he is under pressure, and which in my opinion apart from John Higgins is the toughest player on the circuit to beat..

[arbitrage]

It's ridiculous to say Selby was lucky! Selby as usual showed true grit and guile, which is his hallmark. To win frame 17 and then the next two frames for victory, is a typical example of how cool he is under pressure, and which in my opinion apart from John Higgins is the toughest player on the circuit to beat..

true grit and guile are acronyms for time wasting, exploiting rule loopholes in a gentleman's game to your advantage and shameless denial after fouling? these are the hallmarks of a champion and world no.1?
on the flip side, have you ever seen mark williams lose his cool in a match like that? where he would just belt the ball to get out of a snooker w/o even looking at the table first (and in a deciding frame)?
something obviously made him very angry .. and its probably not just the incident with the pink.