Shanghai Masters last 16 discussion

[poolqjunkie]

I agree that we do not see super top performance like many 100+ in almost every frame, but the standard of the matches I have seen in my opinion are quite still high. There is even a 147.

Now, these players have to spend more money going to China and their expenses with hotels and such are quite high for the whole duration of the tournament. Perhaps, this would put some extra stress on them mentally, like not wanting to lose so have to go home early kind of thing. This might affect their shot selections. Just a thought. Another thing is I think they might really want to impress the crowd in the China seeing how some players got sponsorships from some Chinese coperations and so on, and that again may change their games slightly.

Actually, my point was that jet lag really shoudl not be a reason and I have never heard any player using that as an excuse when they lost. It is within the control of the pro--just arrive a few days earlier, adjust their biological clock a few weeks before hand and so on can all be done to avoid that.

I am not sure how you know Ding DOES NOT travel during the season. There is a blog of Ding and he posted things like, "I am flying to UK now," "I am back home now," and such. His family is in China, but his mom stays with him in the UK. He has a few clubs in China. He just bought an apartment in the UK, not sure where. But I knwo for sure he flies back to China every now and then, because China is his home. He probably arrives a bit early before the first tournament of the season to get over his jet lag get some warm up, or something like that. If he has a few months between tournaments, he may fly back to China. But that is the same for the Uk players going to China, right? Even if Ding does not fly during the season, he will still have to fly to the Uk when the season begins. He will still need to get over the jet lag during that flight, right?

Besides, it is not just the flying, but just being in a strange country, with different culture and food and language that can really affect you mentally. It can create a kind of insecurity, making you lose your confidence. But a player is determined to overcome that, if they are serious about being the top. They are human you are right, and human adjusts.

Marco Fu lives in Hong Kong, I think he has a girlfriend there now.

But that is beside the point.

Bottom line is a professional needs to get used to that. What about when Ding or Marco needed to go play in the IBSF? or the Uk players playing in the World Series, or Malta Cup...etc. UK player sued to play in Canada, and Autralia as well, they won almost all those events.

Look at golf players, they need to travel to many continents and they just adjust. Jetlagging is something that a pro needs to get used to, and is perfectly within the realm of the pro to control.

I actually do not think the standard is low in this tournament, I think it is quite high. I do think the pockets looked a bit more forgiving--saw the ball stayed at the lid of the pocket, then dropped a few times--wondering if the drop is the same as the Rileys?

[poolqjunkie]

That is not necesarily under your control. They are pros but they are human also. And at their level even a moderate jetlag will make a difference. During the season Ding is living in Sheffield, he doesn't travel.

This is Ding's blog, you can translate it or get someone to do it for you.
http://snookerding.blog.sohu.com/
Here is a brief of what he did in 2008 according to his blog
1-05 Just arrived in UK
2-10 Back to UK
3-06 Back to China
5-08 Back to China
6-06 Play a Tournament in China
6-12 back to university in China
7-11 attain Charity function in China
8-12 Olympic
8-15 NIT preparation
8-26 Fly to NIT
9-25 Played Selby
9-26 Back to China
...
It does look like he flies quite a bit.

[Monique]

Well the same Ding when he lost in the quarters in the UK 2006 was obviously out of sorts and even fell asleep during the match. He had played the Asian games just before and was totally jetlagged. And nobody doubted it had a very negative impact on his game.

Whatever you may think those guys are human ... fighting jetlag is not something you can do just like that. It's a biological process, it takes time, sometimes more than other times.
And my own experience is that it's harder taveling east. I really have not idea why.

[Cyril]

Did anyone think that Davis' missed pink was reminiscent of Fred's missed pink in the 1978 World Semi Final v Perrie Mans? It just looked exactly like it... Same camera angle, too!

Pink would have made it 16-15 to Mans I believe, after 64-year old Davis had recovered from 8-13.

Lowe: "And he's missed the pink!!" "Well, what an incredible shot!!" :snooker:

[Fist of Fury]

it definitly looked as if he was trying his hardest to lose it.

that shot from pink to black was a joke, played it as if he'd already won the frame and was just messing around, same with the black.
chinese crowd loved it, i think he looks like a fool when he plays like that.

so what? He won, that is all thaty matters. He plays how he wants, nowt wrong with that

[Fist of Fury]

Nonsense performance from O'Sullivan really, shame that Joe couldn't make him pay I think. He'll probably go on to win the whole thing now which would be pretty typical.

If he wins it by playing great snooker then fair enough but when people let him win titles playing like he has at times recently then for me that's not a good thing.

If you win, then you deserve to, I get tired of this "put down ronnie" attitude.

Yes, today he was rather frustrated and didn't play well, but he played better than joe and that is that.

Seems if he loses he isn't "living up to his reputation" and if he wins, "he doesn't deserve it" due to a number of reasons. mostly, just because it is ronnie

I didn't like his demeanour either but to say " but when people let him win titles playing like he has"

Is an UTTER NONSENSE.

[poolqjunkie]

Did not watch the ROS watch, not sure what everyone is talking about with regard to the ref. Could someone fill me in please?
Love to see this great amazing black that everyone is talking about.

[Fist of Fury]

Ronnie apprently swore when he missed and the referee threatened to give perry a frame if he did it again, to which Ronnie replied "OK". (the ref can be heard on links below saying "it was for swearing" or something similar)

I felt this was outrageous and clearly this sport doesn't remember mcenroe.

In anycase, ronnie argued at first with the ref who told him that the time for debate was later.

Ronnie came back after that and was definately in worse shape, perry seemed to have the momentum but couldn't capitalise. At the end, after missing difficult green, ronnie slammed balls in and threw his extension under the table.

Attempting to play exhibition for the final black which he needed, he missed the position and left himself close to black.

Didn't matter, a superb black was enough.

Full thing can be seen here in parts >>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcCVc...eature=related

The extension throwing is right near end, final blue

also look at 2:32 for an amusing moment, where the guy cannot see the positions and is clearly extremely agitated "i cant see it!!!!"

To which ronnie simply laughs his head off hahaha

I think at 2:56, ronnie is saying "here you go joe" by the actions for gifting him the red with a very poor safety

Definately not a good match for ronnie, temperament wise.

[Forman]

so what? He won, that is all thaty matters. He plays how he wants, nowt wrong with that

I know he plays how he wants and theres nothing wrong with that.
Im glad he won and never said he didnt deserve to, in fact i hope he goes on to win the tournament (now that robbos out ) as hes probably my favourite player to watch.

I just wish he wouldnt lose it and act like such a child during matches as its really frustrating to watch him deliberately make such hard work of a clearance that should have been a piece of cake:snooker:

[Fist of Fury]

I know he plays how he wants and theres nothing wrong with that.
Im glad he won and never said he didnt deserve to, in fact i hope he goes on to win the tournament (now that robbos out ) as hes probably my favourite player to watch.

I just wish he wouldnt lose it and act like such a child during matches as its really frustrating to watch him deliberately make such hard work of a clearance that should have been a piece of cake:snooker:

I hear ya take the rough with the smooth though forman. There is a price for genius

[poolqjunkie]

Ronnie apprently swore when he missed and the referee threatened to give perry a frame if he did it again.

I felt this was outrageous and clearly this sport doesn't remember mcenroe.

In anycase, ronnie argued at first with the ref who told him that the time for debate was later.

Ronnie came back after that and was definately in worse shape, perry seemed to have the momentum but couldn't capitalise. At the end, after missing difficult green, ronnie slammed balls in and threw his extension under the table.

Attempting to play exhibition for the final black which he needed, he missed the position and left himself close to black.

Didn't matter, a superb black was enough.

Full thing can be seen here in parts >>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcCVc...eature=related

The extension throwing is right near end, final blue

also look at 2:32 for an amusing moment, where the guy cannot see the positions "i cant see it!!!!"

To which ronnie simply laughs his head off hahaha

Thanks.
Watched the match, but did not see the swearing and being warned part. Thanks for the link. Watched the final black, what was that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cant believe he just potted that black in, without really taking anytime, liek a routine black to him.
The green perry missed was very close, really a miss he woudl remember for a while I am afraid. Missed a black earlier or else he might have won...O well.

Edit: I read that ROS was just asking the ref whether it was best of 11 or best of 9 as he was not sure. At least that is what he said happened when he was asked in the press conference.

[Fist of Fury]

actually on further reflection green wasnt THAT hard, the position complicated it

I definately heard the ref say "it was for swearing" (or similar phrase)

It must be in there somewhere. and the ref also told him to drop the argument before he left arena and then said "if you do it again I will award the frame to joe"

[poolqjunkie]

actually on further reflection green wasnt THAT hard, the position complicated it

I definately heard the ref say "it was for swearing" (or similar phrase)

It must be in there somewhere. and the ref also told him to drop the argument before he left arena and then said "if you do it again I will award the frame to joe"

I see. That is interesting.

I did not think he would miss that green, was something like a 3/4 ball or so, and he just needed to screw back and not go in off and not be on the rail and not screw too much so it will go below the brown (I think that was all he needed to do) He seemed to cue a bit funny may be it was the pressure?

He was shooting pretty well in the beginning, and then he missed an easy black, which I think was the shot he really should not have missed. That black was routine, but the position again was a tricky thing.

Why did they stop Joe from shooting when he was on the brown, there seemed ot be a discusision between the ref and the fellow inside a booth?.

[Forman]

i think he was playing the green with right hand side to bring the white back up the table, still youd expect hiw to make it 9/10.

when they stoped him on the brown i think the scoreboard was wrong and they were sorting it out.

[Monique]

I must say I have to agree with Fist here and I'm a bit tired about people going about how "lucky" or "fortunate" Ronnie is. It isn't his fault if the other player misses ... He's made his fair share of mistakes himself! As I said elsewhere the overall level isn't really great until now. What did make the difference in the NIT and up to now in this tournament is that he has been able to make a better use of the opportunities he was given, in particular at crucial times. That simple. And it is part of the game.

Coming back to the "swearing" incident. I didn't hear anything myself, but then the chinese commentators were quite enthousiastic It's not the first time Ronnie is warned for swearing and usually accepts it without discussion: it's an uncontrolled reaction but he knows it's wrong. So I'm a bit surprised he did argue (I'll come back to that later). But what is definitely interesting is to watch Ronnie's expression during the little discussion at the end of the frame. When Bredan Moore stops him on his way out he looks surprised at first: apparantly at that moment the incident was out of his mind. Then what his face shows is neutral attention, he says OK (if I get it right) and makes a little conciliation gesture with the hand. But Moore goes on and apparantly pounces ... and Ronnies expression turns to sheer anger. He keeps quiet and tries to suppress it but it's there and it stayed for the rest of the match ...

Regarding the "tension" that is obviously there between the ref and Ronnie throughout the match... I'm a bit surprised no one apparantly noticed the beginning of the post match interview. Joe - not Ronnie - Joe expresses what is as close as possible to frustration against the ref. Joe is known as "Gentleman Joe" ... He says that "the ref took ages to respot the balls" and goes on explaining it affected his concentration and this start-stop pace was no good for getting his game going. If even Joe was getting impatient ... no wonder Ronnie felt frustrated also. So I suppose there must have been a level of "grudge" already when the swearing happened. The little lie in the interview regarding the nature of the discussion was probably Ronnie's wisest decision on the day! The last thing he needed was to get carried away over this during an interview!

And before anyone jumps at me ... I'm not "excusing" anything. I'm just analysing some very human reactions and trying to understand the underlying psychological factors at work during the game. It IS probaby Ronnie's biggest flaw to be unable to keep his temp under control although recently he does recover better and faster than before.

and to support my points about the level and making use of opportunities here are excerpts from post-matches:

Perry added: "I had a chance for 4-4 but I didn't take it and you have to make the most of those. I may have beaten him in the League but this was more imporant as it's a ranking event."


"We can both play better than that," said Maguire, who is going for a unique China double having won the Honghe Industrial China Open title in Beijing earlier this year. "We were going for our shots but we both kept missing.

"I'll have to play better than that in my next game, otherwise I'll be on the plane home. I'm on a good run in China but I'm not playing as well here as I was in Beijing."