Judd's Mates

[daffie]

The obsession with naughty snooker is getting a bit annoying as well.

Highly annoying indeed the way *the Media* (incl bbc) keeps referring to the "naughty snooker". And correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like Judd himself is rather fed up with it as well. You can see it whenever MC Rob Walker announces him and/or asks him the same question everytime "how naughty are you going to be today?!".

I agree. He seems to want a personality that he doesn't have. He's a shy boy, still close to his parents. Nothing wrong with that, of course. But his twitter rants seem to suggest he wants everybody to think he's some rock star type.

I think he's one of those people who has their self-worth tied up in what other people think about him. So has no confidence in himself when not being told how great he is. That's why some think of him as arrogant, I think. Because he always has to be showing off and revelling in the attention. If anything, arrogance tends to spring from underconfidence, not overconfidence.

I'm in complete agreement here. I think this is spot-on regarding Judd. That's why imo it's of utmost importance to get a coach / mentor like Terry Griffiths asap. He can sort things like this out, help steer Judd in the right direction...

[alex_5525]

Have to agree with these posts - all seems like a storm in a tea-cup to me. Judd certainly didn't do anything wrong, and if a couple of people in the crowd get a bit boisterous, it's for the referee to sort out - hardly the first time it's happened, particularly at the Masters. Cheering flukes and in-offs happens in every single match - it's not a crime. I also don't see being on Twitter as a problem, as I'm sure most 22 year olds are, and I've yet to see him put anything offensive on there. If anything, I thought Robbo's response and interview afterwards were a bit childish. Trump has been fantastic for the game for the past 18 months or so and long may it continue.

Must say everyone seems to be bashing trump this week, is there something im missing cuz I dont see him as a big a*se, deffinatly no more than ronnie is.

Trump will be multiple world champion one day

anyway he is better than any of the haters so he will be thinking **** the lot of you, and good on him.

[SnookerFan]

Must say everyone seems to be bashing trump this week, is there something im missing cuz I dont see him as a big a*se, deffinatly no more than ronnie is.

Trump will be multiple world champion one day

anyway he is better than any of the haters so he will be thinking **** the lot of you, and good on him.

I don't hate Judd, I just don't find myself rooting for him to win matches. I think he rubs people up the wrong way, but I've stated my reasons above. If anything, I want to like him. He seems to good at a sport I love watching to hate him. Yet somehow, I can never quite warm to him.

[alex_5525]

I don't hate Judd, I just don't find myself rooting for him to win matches. I think he rubs people up the wrong way, but I've stated my reasons above. If anything, I want to like him. He seems to good at a sport I love watching to hate him. Yet somehow, I can never quite warm to him.

How does he rub people up the wrong way, by playing exhibition shots? by playing quick? by beating them? I dont really understand this concept people have of judd rubbing it in peoples faces? I have honestly never seen him ever say "im gunna give this guy a spanking" and even if he did, hed be right. he just plays and beats people and he doesnt do the ****ty clench fist pump and finger wag (well not after every frame like some players I could mention)

also your comment about him being flash and reeling in the attention is really stupid cuz I can name at least 3 players who have done the same and become legends since.

[deant1982]

How does he rub people up the wrong way, by playing exhibition shots? by playing quick? by beating them? I dont really understand this concept people have of judd rubbing it in peoples faces? I have honestly never seen him ever say "im gunna give this guy a spanking" and even if he did, hed be right. he just plays and beats people and he doesnt do the ****ty clench fist pump and finger wag (well not after every frame like some players I could mention)

Actions speak louder than words friend. His overall body language showed (to me at least) his gameplan was outpot Robertson, not outplay him. At the UK he outplayed his opponents, forced the openings, and capitalized. This came off as he was arrogant instead of confident. He felt unbeatable, which is fine, but instead of remembering what brought him to the dance he tried to be too adventurous against a very good opponent and got beat by someone that outplayed him.

Also your comment about him being flash and reeling in the attention is really stupid because I can name at least 3 players who have done the same and become legends since.

Alex Higgins, Jimmy White, Ronnie O'Sullivan... All 3 had all the natural talent in the world. All 3 had "clingers-on" instead of friends. All 3 never had a mentor or REAL friend to give them a kick up the a$$ and tell them to tone it down a bit and keep their feet on the ground. All 3 believed their own hype and the crap the press printed. All 3 are legends of the game. Not one of the 3 EVER achieved their full potential and none of them (Ronnie included) are commonly thought of as the greatest player ever by anyone that knows anything about snooker. With the talent each of them had, that could have been easily achievable. Personally, I'd like to see Judd win world titles for years to come, and he has the talent to do so. If his "friends" are real friends, they will ensure he does this. If they are not real friends, he is another hurricane/whirlwind/rocket in waiting. A couple of world titles here and there maybe, crowd adulation, but an underwhelming list of tournament wins. That would be a shame, as he seems like a genuinely nice lad when he's not around his "mates".

P.s, to whoever it was that said he is better than the haters....... No doubt on a snooker table he is better than me. He's better than most. But talented doesn't mean nice, and money doesn't buy class.

[ken147]

How does he rub people up the wrong way, by playing exhibition shots? by playing quick? by beating them? I dont really understand this concept people have of judd rubbing it in peoples faces? I have honestly never seen him ever say "im gunna give this guy a spanking" and even if he did, hed be right. he just plays and beats people and he doesnt do the ****ty clench fist pump and finger wag (well not after every frame like some players I could mention)

also your comment about him being flash and reeling in the attention is really stupid cuz I can name at least 3 players who have done the same and become legends since.

Judd said that if he played his best he would of beaten Robertson. Sore loser.

[Le Ball Sack]

Would have easily beaten Robertson.

[alex_5525]

To me that seems incorrect, Alex higgins and jimmy white both love/loved the game. To alex the entertainment he gave meant more than winning and he would make people watch. are you really telling me you would rather have judd being a winner than an entertainer. Ive heard no end of times the story about how snooker is going to die and every player plays with the same technique etc etc, and here comes a change and you wont accept. nevermind..

and what has his mates got to do with anything (apart from the robertson vs trump game)?

Also I class alex higgins as the best player, not by what he won or achieved, but by who he was and how he played and have DEFFINATLY heard a lot of people say he is the best player ever, who all know the game well. Are you really telling me I know nothing about the game.

Annother thing I still dont really see how Trump trying to outpot robertson comes off as arrogant as he is an insaine potter, although i did not see his body language comming off in this way, he didnt really get many chances as Robertson is a class act when he plays like he did (then he goes and spoils it by the fist clench). So robertson was getting him into positions where trump wasnt able to respond so maybe he took on one too many.

You seem to have a complex about trump comming through..shame really because he is gaining many fans and will win many titles in his own way of playing despite what you say. He has an incredible amount of natural talent (I deffinatly remember hearing someone put 10 quid on him winning the world title one day, when judd was only about 8).

[deant1982]

[QUOTE=alex_5525;617427]To me that seems incorrect, Alex higgins and jimmy white both love/loved the game. To alex the entertainment he gave meant more than winning and he would make people watch. are you really telling me you would rather have judd being a winner than an entertainer.[/QUOTE}

Yes, basically. If not, I have a feeling he will regret it when he's older and his chance is passed. Exhibition shots are called so for a reason. They are for when you are playing somebody you expect to beat and know there is an excellent chance you will get another chance, or have realistically won the frame, why not give the audience something to applaud. There is a time and a place for these shots.

Ive heard no end of times the story about how snooker is going to die and every player plays with the same technique etc etc, and here comes a change and you wont accept. nevermind..

Nothing of the sort. The way he played in the UK was awesome. But for a purple patch from Allen the match would have ended 10-3. Trump did nothing wrong and lost 5 frames thanks to magical snooker from his opponent. Nothing he could do. This time, he threw away chances by playing a shot too hard or (in Stephen Hendry's words) wrong. He wasn't prepared to force the error this time, which is the tactical side I enjoy as much as the big breaks. This time he was in a "go-for-everything" cavalier approach mind set, and it cost him dear. Playing against me, he'd have been more than successful, but he wasn't playing me. He was playing a former world champion.

and what has his mates got to do with anything (apart from the robertson vs trump game)?

Errrrr.... Title of the thread

Also I class alex higgins as the best player, not by what he won or achieved, but by who he was and how he played and have DEFINATLY heard a lot of people say he is the best player ever, who all know the game well. Are you really telling me I know nothing about the game.

Who he was? He threatened to have Dennis Taylor shot, Headbutted an official, asked an official to hold a gun for him while he played his match.... Oh yeah, he was real class act!
How he played the game was great for the casual viewer, but his CV should have been bigger, and it never occured to him that if he played a little more refined until the frame was won, he'd have won more frames, and given the audience MORE enjoyment, instead of showing off all match and losing in the early rounds. The longer you're in a tournament, the more frames you get to entertain the crowd. Higgins wasn't bright/sober enough to realise that.

Not to mention, take any REAL snooker expert, who knows the ins and outs of the game (including ex-pro's) and ask them gun to their head who is the best ever. You'll get 4, maybe 5 names. One name will even be Higgins, but it won't be Alex. Stephen Hendry, Steve Davis, Joe Davis, John Higgins, maybe Fred Davis, maybe Ray Reardon. Then ask them who the most naturally talented was. Now you'll get Alex or Ronnie. 2 different questions. Greatness is measured by success, not talent or ability.

Another thing I still dont really see how Trump trying to outpot robertson comes off as arrogant as he is an insane potter, although i did not see his body language comming off in this way, he didnt really get many chances as Robertson is a class act when he plays like he did (then he goes and spoils it by the fist clench). So robertson was getting him into positions where trump wasnt able to respond so maybe he took on one too many.

Trump had several chances to play a good or very safety, but continued to choose to take on extremely risky pots. The boy can pot, no doubt about it. But except for the rare occasions where there is no safety available, there is no point playing shots that are 80-20 against in the hope you get lucky. I just don't understand it.

You seem to have a complex about trump comming through..shame really because he is gaining many fans and will win many titles in his own way of playing despite what you say. He has an incredible amount of natural talent (I deffinatly remember hearing someone put 10 quid on him winning the world title one day, when judd was only about 8).

No complex. I saw him the first time he played at the cruicible 5 years ago or whatever it was, and said then he'll be a world champion one day. The day he realises he doesn't have to try to pot everything in sight his game will grow beyond anyone current. Last year he got ground down and put into a tactical match with Higgins, who beat him with experience. (Higgins tactical game is the best around at present, no arguement). As I said, in the UK, Trump played better match snooker, entertained at the right time, and won the tournament comfortably. This time, he wanted to win it by buying into the hype about his potting and showing he doesn't need to play safety when he can pot like that. It didn't work.
I'd be more than happy to see him play the way he did in the UK everytime in the future. He gave the appropriate respect to his opponent, forced the error, and cleared the table. What isn't to love. All the luck to Trump. I want to see him win the worlds, but manners and respect cost nothing.

[alex_5525]

[/QUOTE]Yes, basically. If not, I have a feeling he will regret it when he's older and his chance is passed. Exhibition shots are called so for a reason. They are for when you are playing somebody you expect to beat and know there is an excellent chance you will get another chance, or have realistically won the frame, why not give the audience something to applaud. There is a time and a place for these shots.[/QUOTE]

True he does go for one too many sometimes, but I dont really see anything wrong with that as he is one of the best potters IMO. He actually has improved his all round game, ok no where near as much as neil but you can see especially from when he played in 2007 at the crucible his game has improved. It was really because neil had him tied up to the baulk most of the time.


[/QUOTE]Nothing of the sort. The way he played in the UK was awesome. But for a purple patch from Allen the match would have ended 10-3. Trump did nothing wrong and lost 5 frames thanks to magical snooker from his opponent. Nothing he could do. This time, he threw away chances by playing a shot too hard or (in Stephen Hendry's words) wrong. He wasn't prepared to force the error this time, which is the tactical side I enjoy as much as the big breaks. This time he was in a "go-for-everything" cavalier approach mind set, and it cost him dear. Playing against me, he'd have been more than successful, but he wasn't playing me. He was playing a former world champion.[/QUOTE]

I would deffinatly agree with you here. But it isnt how he always plays. As you say he played "all round" snooker in the UK and to be fair he didnt let ronnie have a shot in their first few frames, it wasnt just because ron was playing bad, trump played about as good as ive seen! Again it was Robertsons very good approach at the game (second only to higgins in my oppinion, he can deffinatly grind away like the first frame they played and also he can breakbuild as good as anyone) But you can force yourself into a game by potting away, you sometimes have no choice if your opponent leaves nothing on.

[/QUOTE]Errrrr.... Title of the thread[/QUOTE]
Yes but why the big deal about his mates, hes allowed to have them. Okay they aint doing him any favours with what was said and maybe he should tell em to tone down, but i dont see why he should be blamed about them.

[/QUOTE]Who he was? He threatened to have Dennis Taylor shot, Headbutted an official, asked an official to hold a gun for him while he played his match.... Oh yeah, he was real class act!
How he played the game was great for the casual viewer, but his CV should have been bigger, and it never occured to him that if he played a little more refined until the frame was won, he'd have won more frames, and given the audience MORE enjoyment, instead of showing off all match and losing in the early rounds. The longer you're in a tournament, the more frames you get to entertain the crowd. Higgins wasn't bright/sober enough to realise that.[/QUOTE]

Now...
He was a complete ******* off the table, I read his biography and it lists probably 1% of the bad things he did. I think nearly every page he said he was being fined for something. But deffinatly dont criticise the way he played, I see no one better for entertainment. When I say I like him for who he was I mean who he was on the table, you can almost see his personality come through, and I cant remember where I read it but it sticks very distinctly that the main difference between A.higgins and R.O'sullivan is that ronnie would give up from behind, where as alex would not have.

[/QUOTE]Not to mention, take any REAL snooker expert, who knows the ins and outs of the game (including ex-pro's) and ask them gun to their head who is the best ever. You'll get 4, maybe 5 names. One name will even be Higgins, but it won't be Alex. Stephen Hendry, Steve Davis, Joe Davis, John Higgins, maybe Fred Davis, maybe Ray Reardon. Then ask them who the most naturally talented was. Now you'll get Alex or Ronnie. 2 different questions. Greatness is measured by success, not talent or ability.[/QUOTE]
To me this basicly answers if you prefere to watch winners like Hendry or Reardon. Or entertainers like Higgins or White. Neither is incorrect, just preference. Both do good for the sport.

[/QUOTE]No complex. I saw him the first time he played at the cruicible 5 years ago or whatever it was, and said then he'll be a world champion one day. The day he realises he doesn't have to try to pot everything in sight his game will grow beyond anyone current. Last year he got ground down and put into a tactical match with Higgins, who beat him with experience. (Higgins tactical game is the best around at present, no arguement). As I said, in the UK, Trump played better match snooker, entertained at the right time, and won the tournament comfortably. This time, he wanted to win it by buying into the hype about his potting and showing he doesn't need to play safety when he can pot like that. It didn't work.
I'd be more than happy to see him play the way he did in the UK everytime in the future. He gave the appropriate respect to his opponent, forced the error, and cleared the table. What isn't to love. All the luck to Trump. I want to see him win the worlds, but manners and respect cost nothing.[/QUOTE]

Agreed that higgins has the best tactical game, Trump threw the game away as he missed a blue along the cush, Which was one step too far. But actually Trump was very very unlucky in that final. Everytime he split the pack the white landed on nothing. I distinctly remember at least 5 times in the last two sessions where he split the pack perfect and ended on nothing.

The reason he went for so many pots is because he is a good potter, and on a normal/good day for him they would have gone in more frequently, he was just playing on a bad day. I dont think it was anything to do with him not having respect and thinking he didnt need his saftey game, when your 2-0 behind in a first to 6 you need to make things happen.

His manners are fine in my opinion, ive never actually heard HIM insult any other play or even say he wanted them to loose. He did infact say in the post match interview that he could have 'easily' beaten robertson but that could be due to nerves in the interview room you dont really think that much about every word you say and infact as of their match on saturday their head to heads is 6 matches each.

[Inoffthered]

The obsession with naughty snooker is getting a bit annoying as well.

Yup. And why do so many ppl and pundits alike fall over themselves because of it? Alex and Jimmy were being naughty before he was even born.

[merlin1234]

the main difference between A.higgins and R.O'sullivan is that ronnie would give up from behind, where as alex would not have.

Though to be fair that's partially a testament to the belligerence-inspiring effects of alcohol.

[BarryH]

Trump loses a match and some contributers to this forum think they know better than he does how he should play snooker?!?

[Smiffie]

Trump loses a
match and some contributers to this forum think they know better than he does how he
should play snooker?!?

*

That is not how I read this
thread. I doubt anyone could criticize the way he
plays the game, the kid is a wizard for sure, and apart from his failing to acknowledge a good shot from his opponent, his "
game " is where we would all like our game to be. To top that, he is still
only a kid ( no disrespect ) So how will he perform when he has ten years of TV
appearances under his belt ? No, his game is on the ball, there is no
doubt of that, but his attitude off the table coupled with his
"mates" has made him subject to this conversation. I think that if he
can sort his @#%& out he will grow up to be respected.

[paddybhoy30]

It's pretty obvious that judd and his mates are immature for their age. Judd has bn playin for 6 or7 years pro so he knows etiquette. Maybe he sees it as an advantage.