Big pockets

[cazmac1]

We all go on about size but this is not that important, it's more about how the ball reacts when hitting the knuckles of the pocket. In most clubs table the cushions are under cut I can't understand way they do this as it gives a pocket the appearance of being big but when the ball hits the under cut it gets trapped and tends to throw the ball back or across the pocket where on a pro cut table with no under cut the ball goes forward, add to this a new cloth and you have a pocket that plays much better then a club table.

[LittleMissAlexa]

Speaking to a top 16 pro t'other day at newport and he mentioned that he hates playing at glos, the tables play like crap compared to the tv table setups etc...

Wasn't fussed atall to say the least.

I love the academy tho myself...

Bet it wasnt Judd SWSA is like his home professional tournament table

[Deepscrew]

Judd practices in Romford doesnt he?


Stephen Lee says the SWSA is rubbish. They should try playing at Rileys!

[LittleMissAlexa]

Judd practices in Romford doesnt he?


Stephen Lee says the SWSA is rubbish. They should try playing at Rileys!

i meant being from Bristol Lee is another West Countryman Surprisingly

[FerruleFox]

Didn't think these tables have a great deal of nap on them ?

I've always hated that. Of course they should have a nap.

What's the point of using these "super fine cloths" if there is no nap and the balls kick every 4th shot? They should play snooker like the rest of us!

[FOXMULDER]

It's no great secret that the STAR tables are more generous than the previous RILEY tables.

Just look at the current Welsh Open.... Balls are going into the middle pockets off the near jaw WITH power. That
never happened on the Riley's.

They're still tight pockets - compared with clubs tables - but the rubbers seem to take more, absorb more of the ball's energy.

[cazmac1]

Again I would put this down to the under cut

[themayorofflair]

At the risk of hijacking this thread somewhat I just wanted to say I couldn't believe that certain pros had been slating the SWSA.

From a personal perspective it is by far the best Snooker facility I have ever attended, the facilities are outstanding & the people behind it & that run it on a day to day basis are all class & throroughly decent people who absolutely love Snooker. I for one wish there were more establishments like this throughout the country.

The tables will never be quite as good as the TV tables as they are reclothed every few days, doing this at the SWSA would put them out of business within a couple of months although I believe they are done several times a year & having been privelaged to play on them a few time since the Acadamy opened in 2010, I personally think they are superb.

I think the pros who may have been moaning may well have other agendas !

SWSA is the best Snooker facility I have ever attended, pure & simple.

[Odrl]

It's no great secret that the STAR tables are more generous than the previous RILEY tables.

Just look at the current Welsh Open.... Balls are going into the middle pockets off the near jaw WITH power. That
never happened on the Riley's.

They're still tight pockets - compared with clubs tables - but the rubbers seem to take more, absorb more of the ball's energy.

Interesting thoughts... Before they introduced STAR tables for all tournaments (around 2010 was it?), they only had them in the China Open and the Shanghai Masters for a couple of seasons. At the time, I always thought those two tournaments had the tightest tables of the season, and the slowest as well.

That was my feeling from watching the events on TV of course, I've never seen any table up close.

[FOXMULDER]

In the mid 90s I played on a table in Liverpool personally owned by Ronnie O'Sullivan. It was a junior final and the club owner called Ronnie to ask his permission to let us play. The pockets were absolutely ridiculous. They were at least 1cm tighter than TV tables - a ball only just fit into the hole!

Needless to say, the final was pathetic as we couldn't pot a ball between us.

At the end of the day, slightly easier pockets are always preferable to slightly tighter ones. And it's always the same for both players.

[vmax4steve]

It's no great secret that the STAR tables are more generous than the previous RILEY tables.

Just look at the current Welsh Open.... Balls are going into the middle pockets off the near jaw WITH power. That
never happened on the Riley's.

Have to take you up on that one Fox. The WSC in 2010 was the first with Star tables and the pockets were definately tighter than the previous years WSC in which the most century breaks were made. Over eighty in 2009 I believe compared to fifty odd in 2010.
Balls were not going in off the near jaw then but in the UK championship later in 2010 the Star tables had pockets that were back to how they were in 2009.
BBC pockets m8, give the public potting and break building and forget the other finer points of the game and continue the lie that the modern player is better than ever. Now when I see a ball that is on the cushion, leave the cushion by an inch and still go in off the far jaw, I don't believe the commentator when he says that " these championship tables are very tight compared to club tables".
Not in my bloody club they're not.
Now either the jaws are cut differently to deflect the ball into the pocket, the fall of the slate is nearer or the actual pocket opening is wider. I don't believe it is the cloth for this reason. When the tables in our club are re-covered with a new cloth that has a pretty good nap on it then the balls do slide in off the jaws a bit more easily. But the tables on tv use a cloth that is virtually napless so I can't see how that can be the cause unless they use a heavy napped cloth just for the cushions.

[Terry Davidson]

OK, here's what I've found out. I've played on Riley/BCE and Star tables (along with some really weird makes too).

On my table here I have a set of IBSF templates and I also have a set of mechanical drawings of the WPBSA templates (you can't get the WPBSA templates themselves). I had a very good table fitter set my table up to the WPBSA drawings and then afterwards checked with the drawing and then checked with the IBSF templates.

Compared to IBSF all my corner pockets were about 1/8" larger HOWEVER the fall of the slate on the WPBSA mechanical drawings was almost 1/4" further out into the bed of the table. The middle bags were just rediculous as I think the IBSF templates (made by Wiraka) are absolutely way too tight as the pink of the spot to the middle cannot be hit at pace.

My middle pockets here have a full 1/2" extra on each side of the IBSF template and also the fall of the slate comes out almost another 1/4".

Also, some comments on here are correct as the pros are always playing on new and slick cloth. Another comment is I have #10 on my table and I note there is no 'nap effect' when playing slow to the middle pocket from the pack area as mine will go straight in.

Would also like to say I don't know where these pros get off slagging off the SWSA. They re-cloth their tables roughly every 3 months or before a pro qualifier plus have heaters underneath with excellent lighting and also lots of space around each table. I wish we had a facility like that in Canada.

I have found the Star tables to be just a little bit tighter than the Riley/BCE tables I've played on and I will have to admit when I was at SWSA there was one table that must have been set up poorly as it was significantly tighter than the table right beside it (Cally - it was the one I coached you on but I was having such a hard time with it I decided to move to the table beside it and it played an awful lot better).

Terry

[Neil Taperell]

Have to take you up on that one Fox. The WSC in 2010 was the first with Star tables and the pockets were definately tighter than the previous years WSC in which the most century breaks were made. Over eighty in 2009 I believe compared to fifty odd in 2010.
Balls were not going in off the near jaw then but in the UK championship later in 2010 the Star tables had pockets that were back to how they were in 2009.
BBC pockets m8, give the public potting and break building and forget the other finer points of the game and continue the lie that the modern player is better than ever. Now when I see a ball that is on the cushion, leave the cushion by an inch and still go in off the far jaw, I don't believe the commentator when he says that " these championship tables are very tight compared to club tables".
Not in my bloody club they're not.
Now either the jaws are cut differently to deflect the ball into the pocket, the fall of the slate is nearer or the actual pocket opening is wider. I don't believe it is the cloth for this reason. When the tables in our club are re-covered with a new cloth that has a pretty good nap on it then the balls do slide in off the jaws a bit more easily. But the tables on tv use a cloth that is virtually napless so I can't see how that can be the cause unless they use a heavy napped cloth just for the cushions.

What table do you play on ?

i play on a Star table that was used in a TV Tournament . The table is set up to exactly the same as the TV Tables . The pockets are far tighter than standard Club tables.....fact . This table is used by Tony Drago and David Gray , so it has to be set up correctly . When i played on it last , the cloth had been changed and it played really well . Better than when the cloth was older , seemed to play slightly easier . They are both very happy with the table , as it plays exactly like a TV table .

[T.C.]

i know 3 or 4 tables used in our local league that would not have accepted some of the pots ive watched this week. The most ridiculous was Ding Vs Murphy 1st frame. Ding got a huge kick on the brown hit the knuckle full on and still went in. Seen 3 or 4 others also.

[vmax4steve]

On my table here I have a set of IBSF templates and I also have a set of mechanical drawings of the WPBSA templates (you can't get the WPBSA templates themselves). I had a very good table fitter set my table up to the WPBSA drawings and then afterwards checked with the drawing and then checked with the IBSF templates.

Compared to IBSF all my corner pockets were about 1/8" larger HOWEVER the fall of the slate on the WPBSA mechanical drawings was almost 1/4" further out into the bed of the table. The middle bags were just rediculous as I think the IBSF templates (made by Wiraka) are absolutely way too tight as the pink of the spot to the middle cannot be hit at pace.

My middle pockets here have a full 1/2" extra on each side of the IBSF template and also the fall of the slate comes out almost another 1/4".

So corner pockets an 1/8 of an inch wider plus the fall of the slate 1/4 of an inch further out, and middle pockets a full one inch wider and the fall of the slate a 1/4 of an inch further out. That makes the pockets on the tables used for pro tournaments MUCH bigger than those recomended for us mere amateurs, and that is on new tables.
Take old tables that many of us still play on where these templates have never been used and pockets can be even tighter.
No wonder the pro game and the shots that they can play are alien to a lot of us.