UK Champs Kicks Off This Monday

[cueman]

Its pretty much over now, 8-4 at the interval, no way Ding will throw this away and he'd have to throw it away because Davis can't compete against him in any department. Still great for Steve to be in the final and win or lose he will be delighted to have gone this far.

[reverse_side]

great safety, amazing single ball potting, flukes, mistakes from your opponent, excellent break building & not being punished very often.... not much more can go right for Ding... but I'm not one to give up on Steve and tune into Test the Nation.

It'll have to be a great comeback and Steve's capable of it - just needs a huge change of form - interval's come at the right time, Ding will start to imagine winning and 100's of millions of Chinese people celebrating.... always amazing what pressure can do. He might actually play better as a result which would be something to see.... just not the same day Liverpool lose when they score 3 legit goals and have dodgy linesmen (canadian I ask you!) shake their flag while thinking, "That's probably offside" - not heard of "benefit of the doubt" then? ............... NO.

7 frames to go , steve needs 5..... long odds.

[reverse_side]

Ding Wins. Fair and square; he's got a great future - he even allowed himself 6 tounaments worth of smiles in 10 minutes afterwards!

He even gets ranking points and prize money this time! Let's hop hime being seeded 1 for this event next year doesn't cause a problem.... DAVIS! he'll rue that trip to Ireland when he shudda been playing Ricky Walden.

[RaNeN]

Ding Junhui UK Champion...! Well played Ding. Maybe someother day Steve. I see a very very bright future for Ding. He has played amazingly well in this tournament. Could be the next World Champion in a few years.

[cueman]

Yes, Ding played a very good standard of match snooker, I didn't think he could play or match Davis in the safety department and thats where he won it IMO. We all knew if he had a chance he would score more than Steve but he didn't show any weaknesses to his game. He is a definite future world champion, whether he will do it this year, well who knows, he has still to qualify for it and he hasn't done too well in the qualifiers this season.

For Steve, well he was the biggest winner this week, highest break, knocked out the defending champion and 2 former world champions and the world amatuer champion. Added to that he is in the provisional top 3 I think though I'll have to check that one.

[SupaCues]

Ding

The Perry vs. Ding semi-final, evening session was very poor apart from Ding's century in the last frame but at all times he seemed to have things under control. He has a great chance at the Worlds simply because he appears to be nerveless and he can turn it on and win frames when they become scrappy.

[Nat5guns]

First time ive seen Ding smile! Good luck to him in the future, he played outstanding throughout the tournament and deserves to win it. I reckon if Davis had of won the 16th frame he would of had a fairly devent chance of getting back into the match because Ding started to twitch a bit. Its great how Davis can still compete at this game after 20 odd years on the proffesional circuit.

[reverse_side]

aye Nat, there's gonna be a fair few 'elder statesmen' and geezers down the boozer that will feel a new vigour and enjoyment now...... hopefully for Davis this will be the start of an Indian Summer of wins; I think he was mentally tired, there's some that don't know what that means in a snooker sense, but he's played 2 or 3 years worth of quality matches in a WEEK; he;ll be match fitter now - pity bout the China Open for him; doesn't he have a manager that could of warned him he needed to pre-qualify... d'oh!

[Shinsakuto]

From your comments you seem so enthusiastically support this referee. Remember Patricia Murphy is very inexperience and had less than a year training in the club/amateur/ladies game circuits until she was fast tracked into the professional game. I would not puts her lack of experience as a pro level ref over the knowledge of a pro player who had grafted from club level to amateur and then as a top pro. Holt as a player is essentric and his antic maybe extreme at some points but not bad enough to be docked a frame, he had not encountered this problem with any more experience referees and its a pity that someone who has little "street cred" decide that against him. Even her mentor Jan Verhas would have handle the situation without the penalty she imposed on a player whos table time on this level is far greater than her and its she who should learn to respect the players more. The job of the referee is to serve the player and ensure the game is played fairly but this female ref seems too bothered by personal feelings and then unfortunately use this to observe her role as a ref without consideration and nature of the sport and the understanding of what it meant to the player. A miss kick that ultimately decide your livelihood do evoke feelings and a few swear words to himself even amongst the most gentlemanly amongst us and every man knows that, though sadly not all pretty faced women without a spouse and kids knows that.
It was interesting to read an article about Patricia Murphy's fast track into the game, she admits her lack of experience but relish the idea because she believes the game need spicing up with a bit of glamour and she is the pretty face that can provide that so people and players will focus their attentions to her and make the game popular. Sorry, this is not the mentality of a pro level ref, the sport isnt about her being pretty. Perhaps she vented her feelings against Holt because she is not accustomed to blokes who isnt charmed by her? The game and the player is the most important, the ref is merely there to serve the players and observe the game, that was suppose to be the reason the WSA allowed young referees into the pro level circuit, the ref is not suppose to be centre stage.

if a player throws some toys out of a pram by conceding when he knows the rules governing his profession have been changed to specifically address an unnacceptable level of unsportsmanlike behavious, then he has only himself to blame for the penalties.

We and he all know his temperament is suspect; they don't call him the hitman for nothing, also an irony that a nightclub called "Cabaret" bought the space on his waistcoar that he auctioned on eBay for last year's World Champs.... a local Circus could've had a apt bit of advertsing or maybe something to do with Choking too or knuckle breaking.

If it was loud enough for the Ref to hear, a child near to the table could have picked it up; never saw the footage so I don't know; did you? (that wasn't televised, so you'd have to be there)

As for abusing Footie Refs; woman or no woman, Refs have a hard enough job as it is without some jumped up gel oiled loudmouth beckham wannabe leech mouthing off to impress the crowd. They should bring in sin bins and see how their fans react if rotten tomatoes were sold to throw at their uncontrolled players. Refs would love to send off a few but having 9 against 7 where the goalies turn into outfield players would be a dire consequence.

Do you think the number of tantrums, outbursts and unprofessionalism is acceptable? The game is supposed to be like Cricket and played in a sportsmanlike manner, if Patricia Murphy has a future in the game (and here she is)http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...de/sport01.jpg

then she needs to gain the respect of her players and if they know she'll enforce the rules so far as to dock a player a frame, then better behaved players as a result won't be such a bad thing. She even had the guts to do it at 7-7; I doubt she is a shrinking violet if she's willing to put herself through all the training and all the qualifiying matches in Prestatyn, so I doubt we can blame the 21 year old Ref for being a prude in not allowing a player without discipline to utter, "F*cking Hell".

For Michael Holt himself, by his own admission, "I’d already had a warning for premature concession of a frame at the end of the first session, so I suppose the referee had no choice. I’ll learn from that and make sure I don’t make the same mistake again". He admits he was in the wrong for what he did, the Ref carrying out the letter of the law and he won;t break the rules in the future.... again, not such a bad thing.

Our younger more impressionable players (though more embarrassingly in older ones) take their lead in beahaviour from what they see off the TV far too often, they allow it to condone their own indiscretions and worse still, might encourage them to push the boat even further when given the chance.

Not a major problem for me to see these things happen, but you have to allow the authorities to see a problem and solve it with rules that thery then have a duty and responsibility to advise their employees to deliver their authority; which this young woman has carried out correctly. Firm but Fair has never been something many right-minded people have ever had a problem with; unless you lose and you need to time to reflect and just take more time to agree.

[reverse_side]

anyone else got an opinon?

it seems that shinsakuto condones ungentlemanly behaviour apparently because a player knows better than a Ref who's not got a decade of experience to give her the authority to mete out discipline. He thinks a Ref is a paid spectator who should abide by a Player's wishes and not ensure the Rules of the game are adhered to.

as we've probably discovered no-one was there to be able to give a second opinion on the facts; the best we can do is listen to Holt's own diary where he said that she was in the right.... whether she has a husband or kids has yet to be shown what affect this has on her professional ability as a snooker Referee.

this isn't such a major decision as it seems; he conceded a frame which under a newly introduced rule...

5. Conceding
(c) A player shall not concede a frame in any match unless snookers are required. Any breach of this rule shall be regarded as ungentlemanly conduct by the player concerned.

was she wrong to carry out the rules in this way, can we be that sure his swearing was so quiet only the Ref could hear it and no-one in the crowd; can you be so sure? What if another Ref in a future event does exactly the same thing? Won't this settle this discussion in favour of Refs, of whichever sex or experience, once and for all. Respect begets respect.

As for me, there's no great affiliation to this Ref, a lawyer similarly need not be a mate to their client in the same way to see the facts of a matter; he's guilty, he admitted it himself: he won the match anyway, he might have lost is otherwise. This is the first I've known of this Ref, it's not as though the way you paint it like she's a repear offender; if indeed you could argue this as a mistake anyway.

What makes you think she has a history of doing this kind of thing? Why has her sex got much to do with this issue? I'm confused. Women have a much better history of calming situations down without resorting to violence than men. If a person of whatever race, colour or sex behaves improperly in any walk of life, then they must be aware that there are liable penalties that serve more than one purpose; offender punishment and a warning to others.

Imagine if they wanted to go further and dock him ranking points? If it was earlier in the match he would have been at risk of losing the match too; this is behaviour that is petulant and he should have been more on his guard than to risk being docked for a frame at such a crucial stage of the match.

There've been 2 incidents of Pro's being warned for conceding too early in a aframe and the WSA have obviously deemed the problem serious enough to warrant changing their rules, the Pro's themselves are patently aware of the change... if it had slipped their minds, then these Ronnie's and Holt's problems will serve as a warning to others.

There's many of us that have got to a stage in a match where the slightest of flukes, mistakes, bad luck, antics etc have caused a varying amount of aggro... but as a Pro, especially on the TV they must already have boundaries of behaviour set in stone so they are incapable of going beyond acceptable behaviour.

Holt acted like a child and was reprimanded as he should have been; if he'd not have broken a rule in a previous frame for conceding too early, then he would have got away with it. As it was, he put himself in the last chance saloon and was 1 act away from losing the match, he should be thankful that the rules go from a warning, then to a frame loss and only then the match is lost; rather than from a warning to forfeiting the match and no ranking point penalty.

Does this seem logical and understandable from the point of the WSA? It'd be good to hear a comment from them, but I can't imagine them saying anything else but a commendation and congratulating her in a trying situation. She'd've been wary and prepared with Holt's particular reputation and he must have been worrying about the new rule too; so he should.

Sport needs rules and qualified confident individuals to carry them out; it seems we have here..... as opposed to that dopey Canadian Linesman in Japan and the one that flagged Van Persie's goal as offside; d'oh.

[cueman]

Well its history now but one thing I have always been told in whatever sport I play, the referees decision is final. As reverse side says, none of us were there, it wasn't televised and wasn't even brought up at all on the BBC to my knowledge.

The rules have changed this season for ungentlemanly conduct and I suppose its all about interpretation from the referees and on this case Patricia Murphy deemed it severe enough to dock the frame, maybe another referee wouldn't have. Its the same as a referee in a football match who may tolerate certain actions from some players without producing a card and another ref sending a player off.

To be honest I don't really care for an argument, swearing out loud shouldn't be allowed in snooker full stop.

[reverse_side]

Too true CM, it's one of those strange situations in life where someone's reaction goes so far in one direction there's so many factors you can see that should be taken into consideration the other way; if only the WSA knew how many column inches their rule change has generated.

The woman's obviously been given a stern dictum to ensure players adhere to the WSA's rules and the confidence to deliver any required penalties. Without the facts it'll have to stay a subjective opinion with lots of ifs & ands that would be the clincher one way or another; but knowing Mr.Holt his outburst was most likely a straw for the camel's back.

Can't wait to see her in action though! Holt might have taken her off his Christmas Card list though... he can't wait either... his tongue will be further down his throat for sure.

[JanieWatkins]

The "dictum" regarding swearing, early concessions, long and repeated comfrot breaks etc, actually came into force at start of 2004-5 season, so it's been around for over a season now and the players have been repeatedly told before every match what the consequences would be.

Players have been docked frames during the qualifying rounds at pontins and during the PIOS events.

Trish had the guts to stand up in front of the crowd and apply the rules that are in force. Good for her.

And that was despite some "***ker" in the audience shouting out "bitch" at her.

Trish has been around a lot longer than a year in refereeing, it's just that some of you may not have seen her at far flung qualifying events, challenge tour etc as she worked her way up through the ranks.

[reverse_side]

shocking audience behaviour; wonders never cease what some people think is acceptable behaviour.

If Holt knew that the Ref would attract this abuse, he'd've been more restrained in his own outburst to avoid what happened afterwards.

I would imagine that there's enough Refs, Players and anybody else involved in the game that's given her the support she may have wanted after this incident to retain the guts she showed; although bravery and Professionalism is probably more accurate.

GSC; knew about the concession rule change, not that it was in force last year, but for comfort breaks... there's no mention in the rules on the WSA site, although it's something on here that we've thought were getting out of hand.