Higgins vs. O'Sullivan

[AndyG]

Magicman,

I agree that most of us call our own fouls, but I've seen a different attitude from some players in money tournaments where anything seems to go if they can get away with it.

I share your concern over the 60 points for a foul argument - it's for sure that I've been trapped in situations where I've needed 10 attempts or more to hit the ball despite trying my best every time. A friend of mine is experimenting with a new format of the game (OneForSeven) where the miss rule is replaced with ball-in-hand like in 9 ball pool so you can place the white anywhere of your choosing after a foul. Certainly opens up the game to be a lot more attacking, but it won't satisfy the purists amongst us. I just can't see what the answer is at the moment.

[millwall32]

if yopu follow this link it comes up at about 1 hr 33 mins

[breakman16]

A fluked snooker early in the frame gets you 30 points but the exquisite snooker your opponent played late in the frame can only ever get him 4 points (or a maximum of 7 if you are very careless.)

The reason is so that, for example, if a player needs 4 snookers he is unable to get 4 misses (and so the value of 4 snookers) from one shot, he has to lay separate snookers for each foul he needs to obtain, more skillful and fairer on the player who's worked hard to get into the winning position, I agree it needs tinkering, ball in hand or some other variation would be at least interesting!

I see what u mean too but the fact is some sort of rule like that needs to be in place to stop what some of the players used to do, play to a safety out of a snooker and then they would be put back in to bat so to speak and hence get out of the hole they were in!!

Hope I cleared that up for anyone wondering why no miss is called in a snookering position!

[dantuck_7]

I agree it needs tinkering, ball in hand or some other variation would be at least interesting!

I've heard quite a few people say that a free ball should be awarded?

But would this be too much of a punishment....

[breakman16]

I've heard quite a few people say that a free ball should be awarded?

But would this be too much of a punishment....

Maybe, I've just thought, if say the snooker was an easy 1 cushion shot and they went the hard way off 2 to try and keep it safe, cud free ball be awarded then? Perhaps if side had to be used (say to avoid the middle pocket that should be factored in?)

If it was a difficult snooker (refs and possibly player's discussion then discretion) then the miss rule appies as of now (with refs discretion whether to call a miss depending on difficulty). Would that be enforceable once the players got used to it? Any other ideas?

[AndyG]

When the miss rule first came in, the discretionary power to judge the difficulty was problematic, and in a way the fact that virtually every foul is automatically called a miss regardless of the number of cushions etc. at least means that players know what to expect. I hate it when a little roll-up shot can net my opponent 40 points but at least I know the pain will end before I need snookers!

Have a look back at the final frame of the 1985 final sometime and I think Dennis Taylor would probably have lost the match if it was being refereed today because of a miss that would certainly have been called under today's standards...

[magicman]

I agree that a form of the miss rule needs to be in place, but it badly needs revising. Maybe a 20 point maximum penalty or 5 attempts regardless of whether a higher value ball is hit. The miss rule was established in order for a player to NOT gain an advantage in deliberately missing. Now, it punishes a player over and over who has absolutely no intention of missing(as what's the point in continually giving 4 pts away). In the end, after being given 20 pts max the incoming player can still choose to play from where the ball lies or put his opponent back in.

I don't agree with calling a free ball if it isn't one, or ball in hand as that's just too much like pool and potentially alters the whole frame.

AndyG I know what you mean about money games and people who are prepared to do anything but for me they're selling their soul(not that I'm religious) and not following the ethics of the game that pretty much 95% of decent players do. Just tell everyone you know their names and spread the word that they're cheating lying scum (not that I'm bitter and hold a grudge)