Mark Allen is at it again

[vmax4steve]

which is exactly why Mark Allen should engage his brain before he unzips his mouth ... I too would like to see Allen at the top of his game playing really tough matchplay snooker, which he is very good at ... not only is he distracting us, I feel he is distracting himself by wanting to be the "player's spokesman" and the "new bad boy of snooker" ....

It's about time we had another antihero especially after the crap that was served to us on sunday. Look at how Marco Fu rose to the occasion when he played him, it brings out the best in some so bring it on I say.

BTW DandyA, was Patrick Moore a racist for hating germans. I know he had his reasons but time wasn't a healer for him was it.

[nrage]

Surely, Brit is short for British or someone from Britain - so isn't 'Paki' short for Pakistan or a person from Pakistan. I have trouble separating these two abbreviations, but apparantly, a lot of others don't. They say 'calling a person Brit is ok' but calling a person Paki isn't. On these grounds isn't it fair to use both terms. Nrage will tell me this I know, but when I was in the Navy we worked with Aussie and NZ ships and we always called the NZ's Kiwis. Is that derogatory to someone from New Zealand.

Some words have additional implied meanings and some of those implied meanings are derogatory. "Paki" is one of these words. It has historically been used by (racist) people in a derogatory fashion, as an insult, much like the more famous N word (which I am afraid to type) for which denotes a person of African American lineage. Such words still carry the stigma of days gone by and when someone uses one, you're never sure if they intend the additional implied meaning or not, basically the intent becomes hard to determine (and harder still if you don't know the person well, or you're not physically there seeing facial expression and tone of voice which all give you clues to intent).

"Kiwi" has never had any implied additional derogatory meaning to my knowledge (so you're safe from the large Kiwi sailors).

[Giggity1984]

Some words have additional implied meanings and some of those implied meanings are derogatory. "Paki" is one of these words. It has historically been used by (racist) people in a derogatory fashion, as an insult, much like the more famous N word (which I am afraid to type) for which denotes a person of African American lineage. Such words still carry the stigma of days gone by and when someone uses one, you're never sure if they intend the additional implied meaning or not, basically the intent becomes hard to determine (and harder still if you don't know the person well, or you're not physically there seeing facial expression and tone of voice which all give you clues to intent).

"Kiwi" has never had any implied additional derogatory meaning to my knowledge (so you're safe from the large Kiwi sailors).

I've always been confused with the "N" word. Black rappers drop it every other word in their rhymes, surely there should be no stigma anymore?! But, alas, we do have to be careful. I won't type it either for fear of the backlash. lol.

[nrage]

I've always been confused with the "N" word. Black rappers drop it every other word in their rhymes, surely there should be no stigma anymore?! But, alas, we do have to be careful. I won't type it either for fear of the backlash. lol.

Ahh, but of course a black rapper can say it, he/she is clearly not implying any additional derogatory meaning as that would make no sense. If anyone else says it, you can't be entirely sure - unless you know them, or can tell from tone of voice, context, etc.

[Giggity1984]

Ahh, but of course a black rapper can say it, he/she is clearly not implying any additional derogatory meaning as that would make no sense. If anyone else says it, you can't be entirely sure - unless you know them, or can tell from tone of voice, context, etc.

True. But believe me, some of the rap songs I listen to, the rapper in question is being derogatory to another rapper (for example). It does seem to have much less sting then if a white person said it.

[Gerry Armstrong]

I'm sorry but that can't possibly be right. If a fat person wearing glasses calls someone else "fat speccy four eyes" you can't say it's not meant to be offensive to the 2nd person even though the 1st person could well be described as being one too?

The same goes for the N word i.e. you can't possibly assume there is no intent to imply anything or be offensive based on the colour of the skin of the person saying it.

[Giggity1984]

I'm sorry but that can't possibly be right. If a fat person wearing glasses calls someone else "fat speccy four eyes" you can't say it's not meant to be offensive to the 2nd person even though the 1st person could well be described as being one too?

The same goes for the N word i.e. you can't possibly assume there is no intent to imply anything or be offensive based on the colour of the skin of the person saying it.

I'm not saying it is "right" but it does appear to be the case. I agree with you that everyone should be equal in how they are treated, but I think the N word shows that it isn't that black and white(no pun intended). A black rapper can call out another black rapper and absolutley portray his hatred for him using a string of N words in the process on a song that is committed to the public realm through the release of his/her album. However, I won't even type the word here for fear of it's repurcussions. I think that speak volumes. It ain't fair, but it's the way it is.

[nrage]

I'm sorry but that can't possibly be right. If a fat person wearing glasses calls someone else "fat speccy four eyes" you can't say it's not meant to be offensive to the 2nd person even though the 1st person could well be described as being one too?

The same goes for the N word i.e. you can't possibly assume there is no intent to imply anything or be offensive based on the colour of the skin of the person saying it.

True. Intent is still everything. All I meant to show was that people assume intent differently in each case. In one case (black->black) you would reasonably assume no ill intent, but in the other it's less clear. In your example it's clear the intent is to cause insult/harm - except perhaps if the two are friends and it's some kind of inside joke.

[nrage]

True. But believe me, some of the rap songs I listen to, the rapper in question is being derogatory to another rapper (for example). It does seem to have much less sting then if a white person said it.

There is less sting because there is no implication of superiority (definition #1 of racism on dictionary.com). If a white person says it then (historically) they may be implying the black person is inferior in some way. If a black person says it, they can't be implying that, instead they may be using it because they know it hurts (like in Gerry's example).

[Giggity1984]

There is less sting because there is no implication of superiority (definition #1 of racism on dictionary.com). If a white person says it then (historically) they may be implying the black person is inferior in some way. If a black person says it, they can't be implying that, instead they may be using it because they know it hurts (like in Gerry's example).

Ok, I think I agree with that. A very subtle difference, but, an important one. I've definitley learnt something today!

Funny that in our game the black ball is far superior to the white ball. lol. :snooker:

[nrage]

Ok, I think I agree with that. A very subtle difference, but, an important one. I've definitley learnt something today!

Funny that in our game the black ball is far superior to the white ball. lol. :snooker:

I dunno.. that white ball is forever pushing the other balls around What a bully!

[vmax4steve]

Log on to youtube and check out a Chris Rock video Black People VS. Niggaz

I would link to it but as it contains AN AWFUL LOT OF SWEARING I would be banned.

[pottr]

I was going to link that earlier Steve

[damienlch]

Ok, I think I agree with that. A very subtle difference, but, an important one. I've definitley learnt something today!

Funny that in our game the black ball is far superior to the white ball. lol. :snooker:

I dunno.. that white ball is forever pushing the other balls around What a bully!

Are we going into this again so soon? I'm still hurting over the yellow ball having the least points amongst the colours.

[RocketRoy1983]

So Mark Allen feels he can be a spokesperson on behalf of the players? Not sure if he's the best candidate (Being hot headed) but I do like the kid. He's got something about him and the main reason is because he's a great player to watch.

As I said in the Selby thread he may not be everyone's cup of tea but that's a good thing for the game.