Mark Allen is at it again

[tommygunner1309]

I think we have hit the nail on the head here, about what is wrong with the world. So many people do not know the difference between "freedom of speech" and "and abusive or slanderous statements". Personally I don't know whether Cao shot was a push or not. Too difficult to see on telly, but the referee is a fully qualified Grade 1 and if he decided it wasn't then it wasnt. I have fouled before on two occasions which I couldn't admit to. One was when a tassle on my jacket touched a ball under my chest. I was looking up the table and a foul was called. I didn't see or feel it, so I couldn't admit to it, but accepted the decision without question.The second time was bridging over the reds with the spider to play black and on the bacward stroke my cue brushed a red. I couldn't see it as the spider was blocking the view, I didn't feel it, so it must have been very slightly brushing. Ok I accepted the penalty. I think that Mark A could have been much more selective with his words and still have got his feelings across. There is no mileage in being abusive or collectively putting a nation of players in a pidgeon hole. I have met many chinese players and found them to be very polite and very honest. I have no hesitation in saying that chinese players are a credit to the game and deserve all the respect that they get

[Strickimicki]

sarcastically poke fun at the fact that you are the racist supporting another racist

There you go again, calling somebody whom you know little of a racist. I am no more a racist than you are an idiot, to which level that is you can now decide on. I mearly wanted to put forward the arguement that Mark allen said something in the heat of the moment that has caused this discussion. I may now give you an example of his over exaggeration! One is driving with his car to an important appointment. After setting off a little late, time and time again the traffic lights are on red which causes the statement later in discription of why one is late "Every single light was red and everything went against me". This of course is most probably not true, but a simple over exaggeration of the fact that more than a few were not switched to the more compensating colour.

I don't hold myself to be the beacon of light you described, so that is another thing you have got wrong about me. I think of myself to be someone who is very fair in sport in all other things in life. I don't come here to argue with somebody on the other side of the world who has taken it upon himself to defend the chinese state. You may have many short comings in life you need to defend, but I personally have caused none of them. I wish you all the best in defending your chosen cause, but I have now had enough of this discussion.

Having said that, I still standby my comment that everybody has the right to voice his or her opinion. This doesn't make their opinion more or less right, but merely enforces their view of things. If he believes that his opponent made a foul shot that was not called or admitted to, then he has the right to repeatedly suggest that it was so. I agree with you on the point though, that it shouldn't be used to put all players of a certain race in the same box.

Now I really wish you good day or should I now say night?

Brian.

[SouthPaw]

of course this is totally biased (and most likely racist) nonsense. wanting to win or being competitive does not necessarily equate to cheating or needing to cheat. liang wenbo has called fouls on himself numerous times - 3x during his 2008 WSC match vs. joe swail, last year's welsh open match vs john higgins etc etc.

cao yupeng's shot was deemed fair and square by referee paul collier who was right behind him when he took the shot. therefore officially it was a fair shot and there was nothing to own up to at all ok.

p.s. ....and who is the most notable cheat in sport this year - seems to be a white bloke called lance armstrong who ran a professional outfit of cheats for a decade running and scammed home the TDF bacon for 7 years. now all i have to do is find a white guy who doesn't like drug cheats, ask him to agree whole heartily with the concept that white guys are very likely to cheat with drugs and voila, there's the 1st leg of my bulletproof argument

p.p.s.... for the past few years in snooker, who has been involved in major cheating scandals...? ummm, wouldn't that be a white bloke by the name of john higgins?.... and a white bloke called stephen lee being currently investigated.... and a british born indian bloke by the name of joe jogia suspended for 2 years - well well, all from the british isle i see - now all i have to do is find a brit who doesn't like snooker cheats, ask him to agree whole heartily with the concept that all UK players throw games and voila, there's the 2nd leg of my bulletproof argument

Yes the people you've mentioned who are white and British born has nothing to do Mark Allen and this thread, either is a sport which performance enhancers were the norm for a long period, i'm talking about calling fouls on yourself during a match, which for the record i'm not taring all Asian players, it's just the majority of these incidents I've came across i notice they're not likely to own up! with a few exceptions like Wembo etc, don't get me wrong i know some British/whatever wouldn't be quick either but it's not on the same scale imo, and whether Mark is racist, with the statements mentioned in here i believe he hasn't been racist at all, i find certain groups like to play the race card when it clearly isn't a racist matter.

For the point regarding what Mark said about china, if i'm correct he thinks china smells strange, again i don't see the racism! You seem to be assuming i'm calling Asian players cheats as a whole when in fact i'm talking about Chinese snooker players that aren't exactly quick to call a foul that the referee missed. I thought Higgins and the likes should have been banned for life for the record, does it matter he's white like your repeatedly pushing!?

Also you'd be naive to think Asian players don't throw matches as well, especially in their home circuits! Though i think anyone who throws a match should be banned for life too...

[qaasim]

You two are outing yourselves as racists. You should be ashamed of yourselves, ranting on about what somebody else said or did then doing the same. Go have a good look in the mirror and see if you like the hideous face of racism.

Not a good start to your day,

Brian.

You seem very confused about what a racist is... Well anyway your statement is baseless in the truest sense of the word!

It is a shame you support a racist and are apparently ignorant of the fact that when someone repeatedly exhibits the same appalling behavior it makes full sense to judge them as having that behavior.

The fact is you don't make arguments but just seem to say random confused things that you think make sense... but don't!

As for your Red light argument (which at least relied on some reasoning), it is what is known as a straw man argument. Red lights are not a race of human beings who would take offence at your animosity and negative stereotyping of them. One of the red lights was not Marco Fu who was pulled up for a hearsay attack.

Also where is all this evidence of tons of cheating Chinese players?

Months later saying "I don't regret the comments I have made" negates his very poor excuses for apologies that have been peppered with more hate... If not for these continuing shameful ways he would have more of an in the moment defense.

Your argument is not even an oversimplification, it is a complete misconstruance.

[Looki]

You seem very confused about what a racist is... Well anyway your statement is baseless in the truest sense of the word!

It is a shame you support a racist and are apparently ignorant of the fact that when someone repeatedly exhibits the same appalling behavior it makes full sense to judge them as having that behavior.

The fact is you don't make arguments but just seem to say random confused things that you think make sense... but don't!

As for your Red light argument (which at least relied on some reasoning), it is what is known as a straw man argument. Red lights are not a race of human beings who would take offence at your animosity and negative stereotyping of them. One of the red lights was not Marco Fu who was pulled up for a hearsay attack.

Also where is all this evidence of tons of cheating Chinese players?

Months later saying "I don't regret the comments I have made" negates his very poor excuses for apologies that have been peppered with more hate... If not for these continuing shameful ways he would have more of an in the moment defense.

Your argument is not even an oversimplification, it is a complete misconstruance.

The whole comment was: "I don't regret the comments I have made, but the way I have made them. It was unfair of me to label all Chinese players as cheats but dishonesty in snooker is something that needs to be stamped out." Let's not take the sentence out of the context...

What were the comments "peppered with more hate", btw?

[culraven]

I think we need to careful using the term racist, not only is it slanderous in itself, these threads have a tendency to quickly go off track and cause offence, he's been beat, had a blurt, we've all done it! Love him or hate him the sport needs charachters, even idiots

[Strickimicki]

Also where is all this evidence of tons of cheating Chinese players?

I never at any point said there were tons or even lots of cheating chinese, I wonder where you dug that up?

I am also not arguing any point, but merely stating that the man in my opinion is not racist but simply chose the wrong things to say in the heat of the moment! Some people with openly racial (or of course in your case non-racial) issues are making a mountain out of a mole hill in my opinion. The reasons for this are unknown to me and I really don't care to hear them. I treat all people the same whether white/black/yellow/red or for that matter any other colour you care to mention.

I said that the people forcing this issue seem to be racist in my opinion for using this to hit back at the white race or anybody else not seeing it your way.

Please remember I have not insulted anybody here, nor do I intend to (The same can not be said for the apparent defenders of racial equallity), so to you my good man it's good night from me.


Brian.

[qaasim]

The whole comment was: "I don't regret the comments I have made, but the way I have made them. It was unfair of me to label all Chinese players as cheats but dishonesty in snooker is something that needs to be stamped out." Let's not take the sentence out of the context...

What were the comments "peppered with more hate", btw?

That is not taking the sentence out of context, the full quote has been placed in this thread. What I said was "saying "I don't regret the comments I have made" negates his very poor excuses for apologies", meaning having said he does not regret the comments made negates saying what was unfair about them in way of an apology.

The peppered with hate part is where he adds some nastiness to his so called apologies.

"[I regret] the way I have made them" ------------- "I don't regret the comments I have made"

"It was unfair of me to label all Chinese players as cheats"-------------- "but dishonesty in snooker is something that needs to be stamped out"

From these negations of apology, the **** taking of the system, his insulting of the actions and the below

"Once that [suspended ban] finishes, I will have a few more things to say,"

...he shows his colours quite clearly!

I never at any point said there were tons or even lots of cheating chinese, I wonder where you dug that up?

I am also not arguing any point, but merely stating that the man in my opinion is not racist but simply chose the wrong things to say in the heat of the moment! Some people with openly racial (or of course in your case non-racial) issues are making a mountain out of a mole hill in my opinion. The reasons for this are unknown to me and I really don't care to hear them. I treat all people the same whether white/black/yellow/red or for that matter any other colour you care to mention.

I said that the people forcing this issue seem to be racist in my opinion for using this to hit back at the white race or anybody else not seeing it your way.

Please remember I have not insulted anybody here, nor do I intend to (The same can not be said for the apparent defenders of racial equallity), so to you my good man it's good night from me.


Brian.

No digging was required.

I did not accuse you of saying there were a ton of cheating Asian players but people have said there have been a lot. Also your poor analogy used loads of red lights... where are the load of cheating Chinese?

Funny you should choose to contend a point out of context...

Implying that most (if not all) Chinese players are cheaters is not only blatantly racist, hurtful to the Chinese players but it is also bad for the game. Combined with other comment and it is just ridiculous. You don't seem to care, but thankfully people can see that this kind of behavior is not acceptable.

[arbitrage]

That is not taking the sentence out of context, the full quote has been placed in this thread. What I said was "saying "I don't regret the comments I have made" negates his very poor excuses for apologies", meaning having said he does not regret the comments made negates saying what was unfair about them in way of an apology.

The peppered with hate part is where he adds some nastiness to his so called apologies.

"[I regret] the way I have made them" ------------- "I don't regret the comments I have made"

"It was unfair of me to label all Chinese players as cheats"-------------- "but dishonesty in snooker is something that needs to be stamped out"

From these negations of apology, the **** taking of the system, his insulting of the actions and the below

"Once that [suspended ban] finishes, I will have a few more things to say,"

...he shows his colours quite clearly!



No digging was required.

I did not accuse you of saying there were a ton of cheating Asian players but people have said there have been a lot. Also your poor analogy used loads of red lights... where are the load of cheating Chinese?

Funny you should choose to contend a point out of context...

Implying that most (if not all) Chinese players are cheaters is not only blatantly racist, hurtful to the Chinese players but it is also bad for the game. Combined with other comment and it is just ridiculous. You don't seem to care, but thankfully people can see that this kind of behavior is not acceptable.

well said. excellent post. these 2 posters brian strickimicki and southpaw are clearly racists (and daft ones at that) but are trying to obfuscate the issue by putting up lame counter arguments that do not even address my original point - which is how in their original postings they singled out chinese players w/o one shred of evidence - then they proceed to shout how wronged they feel by the fact that i pointed out they are racists. it's funny how racists have the courage to single out people of other races for fingerpointing w/o one shred of evidence but when confronted with this fact, get all defensive and shout "racist? who? me?". cry me a river - if you have the guts to make remarks singling out chinese people, have the guts to own up to it. cowards.

this is what mark allen posted on his twitter, comments directly aimed at china, the chinese people and chinese culture:

He tweeted: "This place is horrendous! Dead cat found this morning. Any wonder this place stinks! Must be dead cats all round the town!!"

The Daily Mirror reports he then wrote: "Journey a nightmare. People are ignorant. Place stinks. Arena's rubbish, tables poor, food is horrendous. Other than that I love China."

That tweet was later removed, and replaced with one saying: "Might've been a bit harsh a few hours ago in my tweet. Not all Chinese people are ignorant. I stand by everything else though."

WPBSA chairman Jason Ferguson described the comments as "extremely disappointing" and said his organisation would take a look at them.

He told the Daily Mirror: "Mark Allen's comments are extremely disappointing considering that China is a great friend of our sport.

"There has been a massive effort from China to support our players and I am sure this is an isolated view from one player.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/g...t-7468575.html

so yes, based on this, i stand by my view that mark allen is a racist who made racially based slurs against china, the chinese people and chinese culture.

[DandyA]

I haven't had the time to ready the whole of this thread (sorry) but I am interested in what Mark Allen actually said rather than what the media reported or even what we thought he'd said ...

here's a quote from Allen on 28 Nov from the BBC website ...

"I have been criticised for it [speaking out] in the past, but I have always had an opinion. If more people did have an opinion, it would be better for the game in the long run," he said.
"I don't regret the comments I have made, but the way I have made them. It was unfair of me to label all Chinese players as cheats but dishonesty in snooker is something that needs to be stamped out."

so he doesn't regret his previous comments which I think said "there's a tendency of Chinese to cheat" but he also says "it was unfair to label all Chinese as cheats" and "dishonesty in snooker needs to be stamped out" ...

so, as I understand him now, what he is saying is that most Chinese are cheats although he admits one or two Chinese may not be ... dear oh Mr Allen, I repeat my earlier comment - please engage brain before using mouth .

I might have accepted his original comments as "heat of the moment" but I struggle to understand why he (almost) repeated them ...

original article source ... http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/snooker/20529712

[SouthPaw]

I'm not going to argue with idiots, as it's impossible to win! But if you keep calling people racist on here for comments unrelated that you don't like, your just going look childish with no respect!

[tommygunner1309]

One mans racist is another mans patriot. I guess I am a racist. I want out of Europe and I vote UKIP. I want all criminals not born in this country deported to where they came from after committing crimes, and I want our government to stop giving aid to corrupt, illegitimate dictatorial states around the globe. ------ Hang on though ----- is that racism? or is it a case of just wanting to live in a decent civil society. And I support Mark Davis in snooker matches!!!! Today he is playing Matthew Stevens from Wales - is that racist -- come on lads, lets have a discussion without the abuse and be all snooker pals together -- The person has not yet been born who is not racist in one way or another - you can pin that down all the way to slogans like "buy British" or pulling on a football shirt!!!

[SouthPaw]

Just to add i'm being accused of being a racist because I think Asian players are not quick to call fouls on themselves than other nations! I'm sorry but I find that laughable!

[eaoin11]

In my experience the people who make such a big deal of this tend to be arrogant tw@ts who think being gaurdians of the game's traditions and ettiquet makes them somehow culturally superior. I haven't liked Allen since his rude comments to Bingham when Stuart narrowly missed out on entering the top 16 for the first time.

[throtts]

Normally, the ones that bring out the racist cards are the ones that are the real racist. They seem so paranoid about there own identity and go straight on the defence, strange but true..