Mark Allen is at it again

[nrage]

Just to add i'm being accused of being a racist because I think Asian players are not quick to call fouls on themselves than other nations! I'm sorry but I find that laughable!

Imagine now that you're walking into a snooker club for your club match and your opponent is Asian, are you going to assume he will be slow to call fouls because he is Asian? If so, you are racist - simple as that. If not, if you wait, see him fail to call a foul and then judge him as slow to call fouls then his race hasn't even come into it, and you're not racist - simple as that.

Your statement above that "[you] think Asian players are not quick to call fouls on themselves" is a generalisation based on race, you're implying all Asian players are not quick to call fouls. This is by definition racist.

A players race has no connection to the speed at which they call fouls on themselves. It's true a player is a product of their environment, but everyone is different and it's entirely possible/likely for a player from an environment where "cheating" is rife to have principals and go against the trend.

It may be, in fact, that there is a higher percentage of (picking a race at random to prove the point) Belgian players who are slower to call fouls, you can't know that, all you've done is seen what you believe to be a pattern (Asian player, slow to call a foul) based on an incredibly small number of players (vs total number of Asian snooker players) and from that made a generalisation which could very well be entirely wrong.

[arbitrage]

I'm not going to argue with idiots, as it's impossible to win! But if you keep calling people racist on here for comments unrelated that you don't like, your just going look childish with no respect!

the sad part about this is that you're so thick, you don't even realize that you are a racist and at the same time you point fingers at others w/o any basis, evidence or supporting facts. fortunately for you, scientists are conducting empirical research on this matter - which might or might not ultimately lead to establishment of a root cause and a solution

http://www.livescience.com/18132-int...sm-racism.html

[SouthPaw]

Dear Arbit... "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

[arbitrage]

Dear Arbit... "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

so you are a daft troll as well as a racist, congratulations - you are a man of many talents.

[qaasim]

well said. excellent post. these 2 posters brian strickimicki and southpaw are clearly racists (and daft ones at that) but are trying to obfuscate the issue by putting up lame counter arguments that do not even address my original point - which is how in their original postings they singled out chinese players w/o one shred of evidence - then they proceed to shout how wronged they feel by the fact that i pointed out they are racists. it's funny how racists have the courage to single out people of other races for fingerpointing w/o one shred of evidence but when confronted with this fact, get all defensive and shout "racist? who? me?". cry me a river - if you have the guts to make remarks singling out chinese people, have the guts to own up to it. cowards.

this is what mark allen posted on his twitter, comments directly aimed at china, the chinese people and chinese culture:

He tweeted: "This place is horrendous! Dead cat found this morning. Any wonder this place stinks! Must be dead cats all round the town!!"

The Daily Mirror reports he then wrote: "Journey a nightmare. People are ignorant. Place stinks. Arena's rubbish, tables poor, food is horrendous. Other than that I love China."

That tweet was later removed, and replaced with one saying: "Might've been a bit harsh a few hours ago in my tweet. Not all Chinese people are ignorant. I stand by everything else though."

WPBSA chairman Jason Ferguson described the comments as "extremely disappointing" and said his organisation would take a look at them.

He told the Daily Mirror: "Mark Allen's comments are extremely disappointing considering that China is a great friend of our sport.

"There has been a massive effort from China to support our players and I am sure this is an isolated view from one player.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/g...t-7468575.html

so yes, based on this, i stand by my view that mark allen is a racist who made racially based slurs against china, the chinese people and chinese culture.

Thanks for the quotes! More proof that like some of the people round here Mark Allen is a racist.

As for the baseless and/or moronic comments:

1. "the ones that bring out the racist cards are the ones that are the real racist"

No, people are racist are the ones who stereotype and excuse the stereotyping of other cultures (in this case the stereotyping is negative to boot). Your insult (to be an argument it would have to use some kind of logic) is based on nonsense and just goes to show your indefensible and idiotic position.

2. "calling people racist on here for comments unrelated that you don't like"

No we call people racist who are by definition racist, the fact that we think you are idiots just happens to be (albeit likely) coincidence.


3. "In my experience the people who make such a big deal of this tend to be arrogant tw@ts who think being gaurdians of the game's traditions and ettiquet makes them somehow culturally superior."

No people who don't like racist comments that insult a billion plus people are just not racist idiots. What they are guarding is common decency and against the disrepute of the game. The superiority isn't one particularly of culture but of moral superiority, which comes from acting like a decent human being and an ignorant idiotic bigot. That "superiority" does not come with pleasure, but with shame and disgust at how vile and idiotic and necessarily nasty so many people can be.


"Just to add i'm being accused of being a racist because I think Asian players are not quick to call fouls on themselves than other nations!"

Let me correct that for you

You are by definition racist because you "think Asian players are not quick to call fouls on themselves than other nations!"

...If it wasn't so retch worthy, after all your nonsense and the excrement tossing arguments/rebuttals around here, the irony of your quote on removing all doubt of being a fool would have had me in stitches.

Good luck to the Chinese players, they will need thick skin and some scruples to deal with the amount of bigotry it seems they are going to continue to face.

[GeordieDS]

Mark Allen is an idiot who needs to think more before he opens his mouth......but racist? i honestly think that's jumping the gun a bit.........it may be in time he proves to be a racist but not yet.................i am not condoning what he said as it was at best embarrassing but this thread has gone way over the top.

[armstm]

i don't think it is racist to say a particular culture has a way of doing things.

its different to say "the chinese culture has not put a large emphasis on owning up to a foul " than all yellow-skinned fellows are cheats.

i am not saying mark allen was right i just think its a bit strong to call him a racist. and for the record i don't think the chinese culture has this emphasis at all!

[SouthPaw]

You guys seriously need to learn about racism, as your logic is pathetic! I could say that south american football players are renowned divers, I guess that's racist too even know that's just their culture, and how they play football...

[eaoin11]

Normally, the ones that bring out the racist cards are the ones that are the real racist. They seem so paranoid about there own identity and go straight on the defence, strange but true..

Much better to focus on promoting understanding and appreciation of other cultures in positive ways. I for one really enjoy watching all of the Chinese players and this issue isn't really such a big one. These incidents aren't that common and surely the ref is there for a reason?

[vmax4steve]

cao yupeng's shot was deemed fair and square by referee paul collier who was right behind him when he took the shot. therefore officially it was a fair shot and there was nothing to own up to at all ok.

Therefore all refereeing decisions are fair and square despite the fact that the referee didn't see the incident properly or failed to understand exactly what happened.
This is the concept of only accepting the referees decision and negates the need for honesty on the part of the participants themselves.
The referee couldn't possibly see that Cao played a push shot while bridging over balls if he was standing behind him. The referee should have been in front of him where he had the best view and could have seen the tip of the cue travel through the shot and see the resultant change in the trajectory of the cue ball.

Referees are made to stand behind players so that they are not in their eyeline for the fear of putting them off their stroke, but the fact is that it's movement that a player notices and as long as the referee keeps perfectly still while the player takes his shot he will not be noticed so should stand wherever needed to get a good view of the shot.
In the current UK tournament, and many others now played, the tables are in an open arena with movement all around visible from the other table/s, including spectators leaving and returning to their seats. That surely is a bigger distraction than a referee standing perfectly still in a place where he/she can see all aspects of the shot about to be played.

In our local league refereeing duties are performed by one member of the home team, including marking the board. I refereed three frames in matches this week and at all times stood peffectly still in the correct place so that I could see what was happening and no one ever complained that I was in the way and putting them off. In fact in thirty years of league snooker no one has ever complained about my refereeing.

As for Mark Allen complaining about China, I remember Ian Botham saying almost the same thing about India when he was on a cricket tour with England many years ago. I think he said it was a good place to take your mother in law or something like that. The poverty and the squalor he witnessed along with getting the dreaded Delhi belly every time he went there irked him and gave rise to him speaking his mind, which he also was censured for. Thirty years on and that country still hasn't changed with millions of so called untouchables rooting around in filth trying to survive while a tiny one per cent drive around in Bentley's and Rollers.

Are the west sanctioning this by getting people like Botham and now Allen to keep quiet about these inequalities ? because the same is true of China. It's well known that the Chinese government are riding roughshod over their rural poor and destroying their environment, and ours through global warming, with 18th century coal fired industrial pollution. The China that we all see is the China that has been cleaned up to give a rose tinted view of their industrial success, like before the Bejing olympics. The only time we get an unbiased view of that country is through internet blogging and we all know what the Chinese government thinks about that.
You have to understand that your political and industrial leaders don't give a damn about freedom of individual expression in foreign countries unles there is something in it for them. They don't give a damn about poverty in the third world as long they feather their own nests with backhanders and bungs.

Barry Hearn is no different. He's a business man with a pyshopathic need to succeed and Mark Allen was censured simply to appease the chinese bankers for whom Hearn is bending over for.

All visitors to China seem to be accompanied by communist party officials and are only shown around the bright side of town. It could be that the Chinese players are under pressure from communist party officials to be successfull to stay in line with this wonderful rose tinted success story, whos knows. Owning up to foul and losing as a result probably doesn't sit too well with corrupt party officials with no idea of fair play who also have to report to their superiors why there isn't the success that is being demanded.

As for labelling Allena racist, that's a little harsh. Human beings are after all tribal, evolved to be so and obvious cultural differences can bring these feelings to the surface and those who are not articulate in their speech and manner can look racist when making complaints about people from other cultures.

[nrage]

You guys seriously need to learn about racism, as your logic is pathetic! I could say that south american football players are renowned divers, I guess that's racist too even know that's just their culture, and how they play football...

YES! Now you're getting it. Any time you label a group of people as having some trait, or doing some thing and define that group by race, that is racist - by definition. Saying "all south american (race) football players take dives (trait/thing)" is by definition racist. Whether the statement is true or not is irrelevant for determining if the statement is racist, the difference is that if it is true, and supported by evidence, then it's mostly acceptable in decent society.

Now, there is racist and there is racist. A statement like that is by definition racist, but does that make you a racist? Well, that depends. Do you constantly make statements like that? Do you judge people and treat them differently based on race? If yes to either of those then, yes, you can be considered racist.

But, like most things, it's not black/white, you're not either (a) racist or (b) not racist but instead most every person on the planet (as vmax has pointed out this comes from our tribal past) is to some degree racist some of the time, what differs from person to person is how often and how much that prejudice affects your lifestyle and interaction with other people.

So, is Mark Allen racist? Well, he has made several comments which could be considered racist so IMO he is coming close to being what I would consider racist, yes.

[Looki]

by definition

There is no exact definition of racism.

[nrage]

There is no exact definition of racism.

True, everyone has a slightly different idea.

For example:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism?s=t

Most arguments boil down to a difference of opinion on the definition of things.

[arbitrage]

Therefore all refereeing decisions are fair and square despite the fact that the referee didn't see the incident properly or failed to understand exactly what happened.
This is the concept of only accepting the referees decision and negates the need for honesty on the part of the participants themselves.
The referee couldn't possibly see that Cao played a push shot while bridging over balls if he was standing behind him. The referee should have been in front of him where he had the best view and could have seen the tip of the cue travel through the shot and see the resultant change in the trajectory of the cue ball.

Referees are made to stand behind players so that they are not in their eyeline for the fear of putting them off their stroke, but the fact is that it's movement that a player notices and as long as the referee keeps perfectly still while the player takes his shot he will not be noticed so should stand wherever needed to get a good view of the shot.
In the current UK tournament, and many others now played, the tables are in an open arena with movement all around visible from the other table/s, including spectators leaving and returning to their seats. That surely is a bigger distraction than a referee standing perfectly still in a place where he/she can see all aspects of the shot about to be played.

In our local league refereeing duties are performed by one member of the home team, including marking the board. I refereed three frames in matches this week and at all times stood peffectly still in the correct place so that I could see what was happening and no one ever complained that I was in the way and putting them off. In fact in thirty years of league snooker no one has ever complained about my refereeing.

As for Mark Allen complaining about China, I remember Ian Botham saying almost the same thing about India when he was on a cricket tour with England many years ago. I think he said it was a good place to take your mother in law or something like that. The poverty and the squalor he witnessed along with getting the dreaded Delhi belly every time he went there irked him and gave rise to him speaking his mind, which he also was censured for. Thirty years on and that country still hasn't changed with millions of so called untouchables rooting around in filth trying to survive while a tiny one per cent drive around in Bentley's and Rollers.

Are the west sanctioning this by getting people like Botham and now Allen to keep quiet about these inequalities ? because the same is true of China. It's well known that the Chinese government are riding roughshod over their rural poor and destroying their environment, and ours through global warming, with 18th century coal fired industrial pollution. The China that we all see is the China that has been cleaned up to give a rose tinted view of their industrial success, like before the Bejing olympics. The only time we get an unbiased view of that country is through internet blogging and we all know what the Chinese government thinks about that.
You have to understand that your political and industrial leaders don't give a damn about freedom of individual expression in foreign countries unles there is something in it for them. They don't give a damn about poverty in the third world as long they feather their own nests with backhanders and bungs.

Barry Hearn is no different. He's a business man with a pyshopathic need to succeed and Mark Allen was censured simply to appease the chinese bankers for whom Hearn is bending over for.

All visitors to China seem to be accompanied by communist party officials and are only shown around the bright side of town. It could be that the Chinese players are under pressure from communist party officials to be successfull to stay in line with this wonderful rose tinted success story, whos knows. Owning up to foul and losing as a result probably doesn't sit too well with corrupt party officials with no idea of fair play who also have to report to their superiors why there isn't the success that is being demanded.

As for labelling Allena racist, that's a little harsh. Human beings are after all tribal, evolved to be so and obvious cultural differences can bring these feelings to the surface and those who are not articulate in their speech and manner can look racist when making complaints about people from other cultures.

fact is - mark allen made racist comments not only once but repeatedly and is to this day sticking by them. this makes him a racist in any sense of the word. personally i don't believe that there was any malice on his part - perhaps as you say, his communication skills are not great - but nevertheless, the comments he made were way out of line and racist in nature. also, accusing other players of cheating w/o any supporting evidence whatsoever is slander and the fact that he said "all" chinese players including those he pointed to by name is worse because of the racial profiling.

the snooker authorities did the right thing by fining him as he breached the terms of the players contract - i see no reason why barry hearn would bend over to the chinese as you claim - conversely, if a chinese player makes the same unfounded allegations about english players, i'm sure the snooker authorities would do the right thing and mete out appropriate punishment.

[SouthPaw]

YES! Now you're getting it. Any time you label a group of people as having some trait, or doing some thing and define that group by race, that is racist - by definition. Saying "all south american (race) football players take dives (trait/thing)" is by definition racist. Whether the statement is true or not is irrelevant for determining if the statement is racist, the difference is that if it is true, and supported by evidence, then it's mostly acceptable in decent society.

Now, there is racist and there is racist. A statement like that is by definition racist, but does that make you a racist? Well, that depends. Do you constantly make statements like that? Do you judge people and treat them differently based on race? If yes to either of those then, yes, you can be considered racist.

But, like most things, it's not black/white, you're not either (a) racist or (b) not racist but instead most every person on the planet (as vmax has pointed out this comes from our tribal past) is to some degree racist some of the time, what differs from person to person is how often and how much that prejudice affects your lifestyle and interaction with other people.

So, is Mark Allen racist? Well, he has made several comments which could be considered racist so IMO he is coming close to being what I would consider racist, yes.

Well at least you explain your logic properly unlike others in this thread who just insult, even if i don't agree with it...

Okay a couple of other examples, I believe Chinese people are the smallest in the world, America have the most obese people on the planet! I'm stating what I've read and learnt so because i'm outing a particular group i'm being racist?

Now here's a couple of examples of what i deem racism to be! All polish people are thick and drink vodka all day! Chinese people are all dwarfs with funny eyes! Making monkey chants at black skinned human beings and throwing bananas. All things i wouldn't even dare to do and say because i have morals and respect for all races and cultures...

Now can you see why i don't consider my previous statements to be racist, if not we'll have to agree to disagree!