Latest re-rack in history

[bongo]

OK maybe it's not silly But then again,players should be encouraged to play positive safety. IF that is not possible,then I agree with Welshsteve, they should play a re-spotted black and not re-rack the complete frame!!!

What about if there is a re-rack with the pink AND black left? You can't have a respotted black as the re-rack because that means you lose the points from the pink. And yes it can be harsh to have a re-rack with only pink and black left, but it certainly can happen!

[Welshsteve]

Will never happen, but maybe a 6 reds re-rack LOL

[Souwester]

I've been refereeing for over 20 years now, and with all the matches I've officiated, I've only ever had to restart three frames now, two of which have been in the last couple of years or so.

I'd been refereeing for maybe 10 years before I had to restart my first frame... and that was very late in another sense. It was well past midnight in a Ladies semi-final at the BIC in Bournemouth. Not the way you want the match to go at that time of night, when you've been refereeing almost non-stop from 10am! As I recall that was when there was just one red left, tight on the top cushion, which the players were just tapping into.

[The Statman]

I've been refereeing for over 20 years now, and with all the matches I've officiated, I've only ever had to restart three frames now, two of which have been in the last couple of years or so.

I'd been refereeing for maybe 10 years before I had to restart my first frame... and that was very late in another sense. It was well past midnight in a Ladies semi-final at the BIC in Bournemouth. Not the way you want the match to go at that time of night, when you've been refereeing almost non-stop from 10am! As I recall that was when there was just one red left, tight on the top cushion, which the players were just tapping into.

I remember that evening well. Karen Corr I think was 3-0 but to add insult to the injury of lateness, her opponent caught up and won 4-3. Somewhere along the line, the few remaining reds ended up around the black which was over one of the top pockets.

If I remember rightly, a fitting from the ceiling fell down and almost hit you on the head ... ?

[rambon]

I've always thought at the top level of the game that a re-rack would be a much fairer solution than re-spotting the black.

Here's one for The Statman. What percentage of Crucible frames have ended up in a re-spotted black, or how many last year needed re-spotted blacks? I'm sure it wouldn't have that great an impact on the scheduling of matches and takes out the relatively random nature of a re-spotted black finish, where winning the toss is such a massive advantage.

[The Statman]

I've always thought at the top level of the game that a re-rack would be a much fairer solution than re-spotting the black.

Here's one for The Statman. What percentage of Crucible frames have ended up in a re-spotted black, or how many last year needed re-spotted blacks? I'm sure it wouldn't have that great an impact on the scheduling of matches and takes out the relatively random nature of a re-spotted black finish, where winning the toss is such a massive advantage.

There were only two re-spots at Sheffield this year, and I would guess the average is probably only two or three.

I guess the problem might occur if you got two in quick succession in the same match - getting 9 in a daytime session in the first round is sometimes hard enough as it is, by using a re-rack instead of a re-spot you're essentially looking at 10 or even 11 frames.

In fact, in 1987, the final Jimmy White v. Dean Reynolds, which was a Tuesday afternoon session and finished 10-8, did in fact have a re-spot in each of the first two frames.

[Souwester]

I wonder how many deciding frames at The Crucible have been won on a re-spotted black?

[The Statman]

I wonder how many deciding frames at The Crucible have been won on a re-spotted black?

Just the one proper 'decider' - Bond v. Hendry a few years back.

As far as I know the only other Crucible matches which finished on a re-spot, but not in the last frame possible, are the 1983 final (Davis 77-70 Thorburn in the 24th frame, winning 18-6) and the 1984 first-round match Dennis Taylor v. Joe Johnson. Taylor won 10-1, the 11th frame was 60-53 on a re-spot.

[missneworleans]

Re-spotted black is much a coinflip aswell. You can fluke it for example

[rambon]

There were only two re-spots at Sheffield this year, and I would guess the average is probably only two or three.

I guess the problem might occur if you got two in quick succession in the same match - getting 9 in a daytime session in the first round is sometimes hard enough as it is, by using a re-rack instead of a re-spot you're essentially looking at 10 or even 11 frames.

In fact, in 1987, the final Jimmy White v. Dean Reynolds, which was a Tuesday afternoon session and finished 10-8, did in fact have a re-spot in each of the first two frames.

So bring them back the next night as currently happens maybe? Not perfect I know.....

I have to admit I don't know the rules relating to a frame being re-racked, but it seems nowadays to be much more prevalent than it ever was. Is there anything in the rules to stop two players (for argument's sake in a deciding frame) saying that they want to re-rack rather than re-spot the black?

[The Statman]

Yes you're right, rambon, it is certainly more prevalent nowadays where the players bring it on themselves rather than wait for a diktat from the referee. Of course, if both players agree, the referee would be foolish to insist that the frame continue.

What was always rare, and still is, is the situation where the referee foresees the stalemate and gives the players notice that he intends to re-start the frame if the situation isn't resolved. I can only think of a few (well I can actually only think of one!) example of this during the 25 or so years that I've been watching the game.

[Cyril]

Yes you're right, rambon, it is certainly more prevalent nowadays where the players bring it on themselves rather than wait for a diktat from the referee. Of course, if both players agree, the referee would be foolish to insist that the frame continue.

What was always rare, and still is, is the situation where the referee foresees the stalemate and gives the players notice that he intends to re-start the frame if the situation isn't resolved. I can only think of a few (well I can actually only think of one!) example of this during the 25 or so years that I've been watching the game.

Andy Hicks v Willie Thorne in '95 World Championships. Referee John Williams gave the players 5 shots each to resolve the stalemate situation, but Willie didn't like it as he led by 40 or so points. He had a right old "huff and puff" as Hicks put it. Poor old Willie.