Joe Davis - defeats on level terms

[Dan-cat]

This is a brilliant thread. One day Best of 13s - childs play! Haha.

[Cyril]

This is a brilliant thread. One day Best of 13s - childs play! Haha.

I know. Fred Davis refused to play in the 1949-50 News of the World because they reduced the matches from best of 73 frames (a weeks match) to a mere best of 35 (over 3 days). It was deemed to be an insufficient test of skill!

[nigej]

Yes, in hindsight it was a big mistake for the sport. Joe could have rejoined when the PBPA started their version of the world championship in 1952, but he chose not to. Such was the importance of exhibition matches that being "undefeated" or "World champion" or whatever were important advertising slogans for the leading players. After Eddie Charlton won the World Professional Match-play Championship in 1976 he was able to claim he was a "world champion" even though those in the know knew that he'd never won the real one.

[Cyril]

Yes, in hindsight it was a big mistake for the sport. Joe could have rejoined when the PBPA started their version of the world championship in 1952, but he chose not to. Such was the importance of exhibition matches that being "undefeated" or "World champion" or whatever were important advertising slogans for the leading players. After Eddie Charlton won the World Professional Match-play Championship in 1976 he was able to claim he was a "world champion" even though those in the know knew that he'd never won the real one.

Joe really could have carried on winning world titles for another 15 years. It may have retained some commercial interest in the Championship with him and Fred and later Pulman, Williams and Rea coming through.

As for the imporatance of having a title... Certainly in Australia where the general public didn't know any better. Horace Lindrum toured Australasia and South East Asia, billed as "World Champion" from 1952 until he relinquished the title in 1957 (I think). It was a title he was officially entitled to, of course but, to anyone who knew anything about snooker he was a renegade champion.

[Dan-cat]

one-day matches weren't counted. Lolz. Imagine if that was the case now, most players' head to heads would be zero-zero!

[nigej]

It was such a different sport in those days. The 1939/1940 Daily Mail Gold Cup for instance had just 7 competitors, started on 16 October and finished on 10 February, nearly four months later. Each round-robin match was over 6 days and was handicapped too. Joe gave Sydney Lee (later a referee) 45 points a frame start and still beat him.

[Cyril]

Yes, it takes a long time to play a tournament where the matches are all round robin and last 6 days, especially when you've only got one table!

All the games would've been played at Thurstons Hall in Leicester Square. The players would have done quite well from taking a share of the gate (12 sessions).

[blahblah01]

That's why Joe carried on with the handicap matches to keep that stat?

Clive Everton wrote an interesting book on the olde days, politics etc....

[Dan-cat]

Which Clive book is it?

I've read 'Black Farce and Cue Ball Wizards: The Inside Story of the Snooker World' and it's absolutely freakin' fabulous. What a read! I had no idea of the ridiculous machinations going on in the snooker world when I watched at home as a boy in the 80s. It looked so organised and elegant on the TV.

I recommend this book to anyone with more than a passing interest in snooker to read it. Help Clive in his dotage! I love him and wish he was my grandad.

[Cyril]

It's so good to hear Clive's voice on the ITV4 coverage.

You may not be interested in going back so far into history but I absolutely recommend Clive's The Story of Billiards and Snooker (1979) and the Embassy Book of World Snooker (1993). The History of Snooker and Billiards (1986) is equally as good and is pretty much a revised version of the first one. Guinness Book of Snooker (1982) and Snooker: The Records [Guinness] (1985) equally brilliant. There's some great pictures in them too. All can be picked up fairly easily on ebay or Amazon.

[Sitting Room Snooker]

Black Farce... is fantastic. Hard going with all the wrangling stuff but still fascinating reading. I'd love to read more about snooker in the 1950s/1960s when the game struggled despite having a good selection of top players. Can anyone recommend a book that covers this in depth?

[Cyril]

Black Farce... is fantastic. Hard going with all the wrangling stuff but still fascinating reading. I'd love to read more about snooker in the 1950s/1960s when the game struggled despite having a good selection of top players. Can anyone recommend a book that covers this in depth?

Clive's history books in my above post cover all through the 40's, 50's and 60's. You may also enjoy Joe Davis' Autobiography: The Breaks Came My Way and Fred Davis: Talking Snooker.

[Sitting Room Snooker]

Thanks. Just found Joe's book for £11, most others were £40+!

[Cyril]

You did very well to find that for £11. If it’s in good condition it’ll normally fetch £45. Let me know what you think.

[Sitting Room Snooker]

Just finished reading it. An excellent book. Joe comes across as a humble man, which I gathered would be the case, despite his genius. I can see his reasoning for retiring from the World Championship after 1946 but can't help thinking that the 'snooker revolution' of the late 1970s would have arrived earlier if he hadn't made that decision (the standard of play would have improved in the 1950s/60s rather like it did in darts during Phil Taylor's dominance). The handicap system used seems bizarre nowadays!