one question about miss rule

[dao]

Hi, everybody. Could you, please, help. I tried to find the answer in official rules, but, perhaps it's quite difficult for me.
Before my shot I needed one 4-points snooker. I was 28 points behind and there were 25 points available on the table. I completed the shot and made a snooker. My opponent did not hit the object ball and I have got 4 points. After the shot of the opponent I am just 24 points behind with 25 points on the table. Playing the shot my opponent did not show his best possible effort to escape from the snooker. Is it possible to ask him to play again from the previos situation? Shall it called: fould and miss? Is it allowed by rules?

[147Alexandra]

If you need snookers either before or as the result of the shot, i do not believe you can make him replay the shot.

[Jlaix]

If you mean to replace the ball in the previous position, then no. Besides, even if you DIDN'T need snookers and asked for the cue ball to be re spotted, the rule is only applicable in amateur and professional play.

Colin

[dao]

I would really appreciate your help... Would you, please, show me the paragraph of the official rules http://www.worldsnooker.com/rules_of_snooker.htm
in which I could find the answer to my question...

[dao]

If you mean to replace the ball in the previous position, then no. Besides, even if you DIDN'T need snookers and asked for the cue ball to be re spotted, the rule is only applicable in amateur and professional play.

Yes, of course, I intended to replace the cue ball to the original position because:
1) I played really perfect shot to make my opponent snookered.
2) My opponent did not play his best shot to escape from the snooker.
3) After my opponent's shot I did not get any attractive attacking position. No free ball. Only safety shot was available for me...

Why not ask him to try to escape from my snooker one more time? After my opponent's unsuccessful effort to escape from the snooker I am just 24 points behind with 25 points on the table. No snooker needed anymore.

[Forman]

If you mean to replace the ball in the previous position, then no. Besides, even if you DIDN'T need snookers and asked for the cue ball to be re spotted, the rule is only applicable in amateur and professional play.

Colin

im confused, what other kind of play is there apart from amateur and professional?

[Jlaix]

I'm talking about tournaments; In a club game you don't use the respotted miss rule.

[pigeonslayer]

I'm talking about tournaments; In a club game you don't use the respotted miss rule.

By that do you mean just a friendly knock around?
If so then I think that is by personal choice or what your club has traditionally done, which is fine, but I am sure when others that frequent this forum play, like myself, the miss rule is applied for every game.

[DawRef]

The 'foul and miss' rule does not apply when either player requires snookers (penalty points). This is described in Section 3, Rule 14(b).
In your example, you required 4 penalty points (which you obtained from the snooker). You now have 2 options:
(i) ask your opponent to play the next stroke from the position left; or
(ii) play the next stroke yourself.

If you decide on (i), then if your opponent misses, then you can enforce the 'foul and miss' and have the balls replaced, as you no longer require a snooker (Section 3 Rule 14).

Remember, though, if you play the next stroke yourself and fail to hit the object ball (green), then the balls cannot be replaced because you now need penalty points and your opponent has the 2 options described above.

[Jlaix]

You use the miss rule in a knock around?!

By that do you mean just a friendly knock around?
If so then I think that is by personal choice or what your club has traditionally done, which is fine, but I am sure when others that frequent this forum play, like myself, the miss rule is applied for every game.

[dao]

By that do you mean just a friendly knock around?
If so then I think that is by personal choice or what your club has traditionally done, which is fine, but I am sure when others that frequent this forum play, like myself, the miss rule is applied for every game.

Of course, if we play just friendly game I usually never use "miss" rule. But the case I described took place at local amateur tournament where I plaid against the guy who is 2-nd in our country ranking.

[pigeonslayer]

Yep - sure we use the miss rule, in every game - can't pick and choose which rules you want to apply!
Although that said we are less likely to actually have the balls replaced - but always need to give the option.

[dao]

The 'foul and miss' rule does not apply when either player requires snookers (penalty points). This is described in Section 3, Rule 14(b).
In your example, you required 4 penalty points (which you obtained from the snooker). You now have 2 options:
(i) ask your opponent to play the next stroke from the position left; or
(ii) play the next stroke yourself.

If you decide on (i), then if your opponent misses, then you can enforce the 'foul and miss' and have the balls replaced, as you no longer require a snooker (Section 3 Rule 14).

Let's try to read attentively "foul and miss" section, rule 14 (b)
http://www.worldsnooker.com/rules_of_snooker.htm

**********
If the striker, in making a stroke, fails to first hit a ball on when there is a clear path (!!!) in a straight line from the cue-ball to any part of any ball that is or could be on (!!! ), the referee shall call FOUL AND A MISS unless either player needed snookers before, or as a result of, the stroke played and the referee is satisfied that the miss was not intentional.
***********
In the situation I asked to consider my opponent was snookered by 3 color balls and of course there was no clear path from the cue ball to any part of the object ball.
So, I really cannot understand how the this rule should be applied to my particular case.
Moreover, I saw several people who were also confused because of this rule!
The same matter.

[dao]

Is there any referee or expert who could answer this easy question correctly, basing on some particular paragraph of the official rules ?

[DawRef]

In the situation I asked to consider my opponent was snookered by 3 color balls and of course there was no clear path from the cue ball to any part of the object ball.
So, I really cannot understand how the this rule should be applied to my particular case.

This is how I have seen it:
1. You are 28 points behind with only the green left;
2. You lay a snooker which your opponent fails to get out of (now 24 points behind, the referee will call FOUL - Section 3 Rule 14(b) - the balls ARE NOT replaced.
3. You ask your opponent to play again
4. He misses the ball (green). Referee calls FOUL AND A MISS (Opening sentence of Section 3 Rule 14) You are now 20 points behind and can have the balls replaced.

I hope that makes things clear.