Referee's Position Then and Now

[Vanwinkle]

Hi and Happy New Year to all.

I have just watched the end of the 1995 Masters Final between Ronnie and J.Higgins. ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2spwfTpvdZ0 )

One think I noticed...the ref was not only quick to respot the balls...he also did NOT always move to a position BEHIND Ronnie. Often he was in the line of sight (if Ronnie had bothered to shift his eyes) but he stood still as a statue. (good example, although there were many, is after Ronnie potted a pink to go to 28 points @3:05 on the video). This definitely sped up the game, IMO.

I am going to assume that "that's how it was back then."

Which has got me to wondering...Nowadays, it seems that when a ref replaces a color, they always step quickly BEHIND the player, ALWAYS. I guess after a red is potted as well. Ref is always repositioning.

What was the reason for this shift in style? A moment in history? An incident? (drunk Alex Higgins and the ref comes to mind) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F07hiKJi6DY). Was it a gradual change, or some sudden new "orders from the World Snooker Throne" for the refs to change their style?

I am reminded that the "average shot time" statistic was instituted mostly to "shame" the slower players into playing faster. I would think if the "powers that be" wanted a faster game, then going back to this type of refereeing might do some good.

I know most of you are more familiar with the game and its history than I am. So, please enlighten me, for I am a lesser mortal among ye.

[Odrl]

I wonder if Steve has any opinions about this?

[MrRottweiler]

It could be more to do with how Ronnie plays as he doesn't give the ref much time to move behind the player but sometimes if a player is down on the shot and feathering they are basically saying to the ref don't bother moving you're fine where you are as long as you don't move so the ref might sometimes be standing in the line of the shot but is frozen because the player is already down on the next shot. Or if it's a large venue they can step back anywhere around the table to blend in to the background. There is probably other reasons for standing behind a player such as getting a view of the shot from the players line of sight which might be important when balls need to be re-positioned after a foul and to help the ref confirm when full ball contact can be made so they can give a warning of a potential frame forfeit for a third foul and help them decide when a miss should be called. A ref using their own judgement to call or not call a miss is rare and I remember people like John Virgo and Dennis Taylor talking about it in commentary during matches and discussing how refs are much more likely to call a miss by default without considering the difficulty and stage of the frame because that's the safest option for them. When there are multiple options for the player it's understandable that the ref calls a miss but when it's one red on the table and coming off four cushions and missing it by a cigarette paper the ref should show some mercy especially if they try the same shot a few times and are very close each time.

[vmax]

I have just had two weeks off work for the xmas break and have watched quite a lot of vintage snooker on youtube and vanwinkle is correct, the refs basically stood adjacent to the black spot when a player was at the top of the table around the pink and black spot and stood perfectly still, watch Len Ganley during Ronnies fastest ever maximum, perfect refereeing, wasn't slowing him down, Ronnie didn't have to wait at all and was allowed to play at his own pace.
The change came about a few years ago now, not sure exactly when or why and it has to be a directive from above as everyone abides by it, but it definately slows down the quicker players and obviously annoys them when they have to wait for the ref to come around from behind them all the time, Ronnie has been tangled up a few times and doesn't like it, the slower players aren't affected at all.

Most refs back in the day were players themselves, probably at county level and could read the table and see how a break was progressing and position themselves accordingly, something I do myself when reffing league matches, but I feel that the new refs don't do this and simply follow orders to go behind the player every time. That bulgarian girl, don't know her real name, but it sounds like Bratislava Bossanova is one of the best refs on the circuit, especially when repositioning balls after a foul and a miss, but she will walk around the table after each shot to stand behind the player even on the last six colours when there is no re-spotting to be done when she can easily stand in a position where she isn't in the players eyeline and not bug him while moving into her ordered position when he's getting down into his stance. I remember one time she was reffing Ronnie and he kept moving from one side of the table to the other, four or five times, pretending to be not sure of which ball to go for while she followed him around and he turned around and smiled at her, she smiled back and both knew that she was only following a directive that made the situation ridiculous, brilliant

The miss rule was perfectly OK as it was, I recently watched the Jameson International match 1981 between Alex Higgins and Steve Davis and there was an incident where Alex snookered himself behind the pack of reds and nominated brown and didn't get anywhere near it and referee John Street quite rightly called him for a miss twice before Alex changed his mind to yellow and got close and the frame carried on. Seeing as you only get one point for a red and seven for a black it's nonsensical to gain twenty for a snooker, especially the dolly roll up behind a baulk colour this shot should be outlawed in my opinion but I'd settle for a no foul and a miss will be called after such a snooker is laid.

I would wonder if it could be possible for a player to speak to a ref before a match and tell him/her that they needn't stand behind him every time as it doesn't bother him, keeping still is the most important thing in my opinion as it's movement that catches your eye and your body reacts to it, after all there are a lot of people sitting in front on the player as he's taking his shot and a couple of mobile cameras but they aren't directed to move behind the player every time.

[MrRottweiler]

I saw a video on youtube and Ronnie is being put off by someone sitting on the front row directly in front of his shot in to the yellow pocket so he asks the ref to tell the person not to move. Then the person sitting next to him moves which puts Ronnie off again and then amazingly another person moves which causes Ronnie to get up from the shot again. I don't know if the three spectators were together and I don't think they were being deliberate trying to put Ronnie off but they didn't seem to understand that for a few seconds they need to remain perfectly still. Once the shot is done they can move again.