Touching ball pointlessness.

[Eels155]

I think I know most rules connected with Snooker but there's one I've never understood the point of, and it's this.

A player is snookers the opponent on the reds behind the black and it's very close to the black. Why does the referee check to see if it's a touching ball on the black and if it is, why do they tell the player that is a touching ball? Obviously the player would be playing away from the black to try and hit the reds. And when they do so, if they miss the reds it's a foul of 4 points (unless they hit another colour of course). If they didn't hit any ball in the escape it wouldn't be a 7 point foul because the white was touching the black. So I've never understood the point to that.

They're not going to push shot and plough through the black are they! And if they fancied idiotically doing that then of course it's instant foul and 7 points. So they are obviously going to play away from. Why the reminder?

It brought it back to my attention the other day because Mark Williams did this exact thing to Bingtao and the ref told Bingtao it was a touching ball. Pointless.

[fkhan]

The ref checks if it is a touching ball just in case they have to replace the cue-ball. Also, if the black moves while striking the cue ball, it would be a 7 points foul. Dean can explain it better.

[Eels155]

The ref checks if it is a touching ball just in case they have to replace the cue-ball. Also, if the black moves while striking the cue ball, it would be a 7 points foul. Dean can explain it better.

The first point doesn't necessitate the reason to tell the player its a touching ball though. The refs are always checking ball positionings in case they need to replace but they don't tell the player 'just checking'.

Again, if the cue ball was 1mm from the black, the ref wouldn't say anything. But if the player then played the shot and the black moved it would be a foul and seven points given away. Exactly the same as if the cue ball is touching the black, and when the shot is played, the black moved.

Still don't see a reason why the ref tells the player its a touching ball???

[DeanH]

I think I know most rules connected with Snooker but there's one I've never understood the point of, and it's this.

A player is snookers the opponent on the reds behind the black and it's very close to the black. Why does the referee check to see if it's a touching ball on the black and if it is, why do they tell the player that is a touching ball?

The referee checks (has a look) to see how close or even touching the Cue Ball is to the Black yes - this is so they know where the cue ball is if they have to replace the balls after a Miss.
In your scenario the Reds are the "Ball On" and the referee will not say "Touching Ball". The referee will only announce Touching Ball if the ball being touched is or can be Ball On.

Obviously the player would be playing away from the black to try and hit the reds.

You would think and maybe at pro level this would be expected but ....
Never take anything for granted, especially when you are refereeing snooker players

And when they do so, if they miss the reds it's a foul of 4 points (unless they hit another colour of course). If they didn't hit any ball in the escape it wouldn't be a 7 point foul because the white was touching the black. So I've never understood the point to that.

Again, "Ball On" is important here, if the Cue Ball is struck (and did not Push the Black), then the Reds are Ball On, hence 4 penalty points awarded.

They're not going to push shot and plough through the black are they! And if they fancied idiotically doing that then of course it's instant foul and 7 points. So they are obviously going to play away from. Why the reminder?

You would think and maybe at pro level this would be expected but ....
Never take anything for granted, especially when you are refereeing snooker players

As per the first point above, in your scenario there would not be any call of Touching Ball so no reminder.
Also the call of Touching Ball is NOT just for the player at the table but also the opponent and any audience, so everyone knows the situation.

It brought it back to my attention the other day because Mark Williams did this exact thing to Bingtao and the ref told Bingtao it was a touching ball. Pointless.

We would need to know the frame and time of the situation mentioned so we can check

[Eels155]

We would need to know the frame and time of the situation mentioned so we can check

21st frame. Bingtao was on 61 points and Williams on 30. One red left on the table so 35 points left. Williams laid the snooker.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/bcvVkHFi4oDWkD4f7

No sound but I can confirm she tells him touching ball.

[DeanH]

21st frame. Bingtao was on 61 points and Williams on 30. One red left on the table so 35 points left. Williams laid the snooker.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/bcvVkHFi4oDWkD4f7

No sound but I can confirm she tells him touching ball.

Thanks for that
I do not hear Tatiana Woollaston saying "Touching Ball".
She calls the end of turn details for Mark's go, but nothing else.
She had a close look as well other angles to check for replacement which was required

How do you "CONFIRM" that she tells him "touching ball", I don't hear anything, and I don't see any indication of her body or arms of any notion that she does so.

If you do hear it, I doubt she said anything, I turned up the volume and I dont hear anything after here end of turn call.

[fkhan]

In your scenario the Reds are the "Ball On" and the referee will not say "Touching Ball". The referee will only announce Touching Ball if the ball being touched is or can be Ball On.

I thought the ref would say touching ball if the balls on were the reds and if the cue ball was touching the black. This is a learning indeed.

[Eels155]

Thanks for that
I do not hear Tatiana Woollaston saying "Touching Ball".
She calls the end of turn details for Mark's go, but nothing else.
She had a close look as well other angles to check for replacement which was required

How do you" CONFIRM" that she tells him "touching ball", I don't hear anything, and I don't see any indication of her body or arms of any notion that she does so.

If you do hear it, I doubt she said anything, I turned up the volume and I dont hear anything after here end of turn call.

I've just double checked and I could have sworn she said touching ball but you're correct, she doesn't.

So are we saying that it definitely wasn't a touching ball?

If it was a touching ball, would she have told them?

[DeanH]

I've just double checked and I could have sworn she said touching ball but you're correct, she doesn't.

So are we saying that it definitely wasn't a touching ball?

If it was a touching ball, would she have told them?

We are definitely saying the referee does NOT say Touching Ball because the ball concerned is NOT Ball On.
We - us - the video watching can not confirm whether it was or was not a touching ball. So it may or it may not be.
If it WAS a touching ball she would not have said so because the Black is NOT Ball On.

[Eels155]

We are definitely saying the referee does NOT say Touching Ball because the ball concerned is NOT Ball On.
We - us - the video watching can not confirm whether it was or was not a touching ball. So it could be or it may not be.
If it WAS a touching ball she would not have said so because the Black is NOT Ball On.

Understood!

Hopefully that's the one nagging question that's bothered me for years put to bed!

Cheers!

[DeanH]

Understood!

Hopefully that's the one nagging question that's bothered me for years put to bed!

Cheers!

hahahaha

"Ball On" is a very important factor in all things snooker.

[Eels155]

hahahaha

"Ball On" is a very important factor in all things snooker.

I get that. I still have this nagging feeling that even though I am incorrect in this example and Tatiana didn't say touching ball, that I've seen it said in the past. But with no further specifics of examples I now have to question myself!

I'll be on the look out for it now forever! And if I ever see another example of it I'll record it and be back on here!

By the way, did you manage to check so quickly by using iPlayer? Or do you record every frame!!? 🤯🤯

Was just wondering as I was thinking its not that easy to check that quickly for tournaments that aren't the WC's on bbc with their great coverage.

[vmax]

We are definitely saying the referee does NOT say Touching Ball because the ball concerned is NOT Ball On.
We - us - the video watching can not confirm whether it was or was not a touching ball. So it may or it may not be.
If it WAS a touching ball she would not have said so because the Black is NOT Ball On.

Happens in local league snooker all the time, ref declaring touching ball when it's not the ball on, annoys me for certain and many times I've asked if I can just play away and always get a firm 'no!'
'so why did you call a touching ball then?'
'because it's touching'
'yes but it's not the ball on so I can't play away from it'
'I know, but it's touching'
'there's no need to call touching ball if it's not the ball on'
'but it's touching'

[DeanH]

I get that. I still have this nagging feeling that even though I am incorrect in this example and Tatiana didn't say touching ball, that I've seen it said in the past. But with no further specifics of examples I now have to question myself!

I'll be on the look out for it now forever! And if I ever see another example of it I'll record it and be back on here!

By the way, did you manage to check so quickly by using iPlayer? Or do you record every frame!!? 🤯🤯

Was just wondering as I was thinking its not that easy to check that quickly for tournaments that aren't the WC's on bbc with their great coverage.

Please let us know if you do your original scenario happen 😀
I went to Eurosport player and scrolled back on that.
Eurosport covers nearly every event now. The only ones they dont at all are the events covered by ITV (of course I mean Eutosport UK not Euro Eurosport) 😉
I could have also used the BBC player as well.
Also if you wait a while most matches are loaded to Yiutube as well. (Most but not all)
BBC great coverage? hm well let's not go there 🤔😁

[DeanH]

Happens in local league snooker all the time, ref declaring touching ball when it's not the ball on, annoys me for certain and many times I've asked if I can just play away and always get a firm 'no!'
'so why did you call a touching ball then?'
'because it's touching'
'yes but it's not the ball on so I can't play away from it'
'I know, but it's touching'
'there's no need to call touching ball if it's not the ball on'
'but it's touching'

Yep very annoying 😁