Simple question

[Caribe]

Hi all,

im sure this will be answered quickly but i cant find it in the rules.
I snookered my mate on the reds, he failed to hit a red and caught the blue instead. After the blue he hit the black too, my question is how many foul points should i get ? The last ball he hit was the black.

ta
Paul

[scottley]

5 Penalty points, because the blue was hit first, the second contact is irrelevant.

[Krypton]

Five foul points.

His foul was the fact that the cueball has hit a ball not on first.

- "value of the shot" (ball on) is 1 (2, if he was on yellow and so on). When ever a ball worth less than 4 points is on, the lowest foul score can be 4.

So, in a first point, a foul stroke when on red, yellow, green or brown is 4 leeds to a 4 point penalty. when ever you want to play the pink (or black i.e.), what ever foul you commit gives you opponent six (seven in case of black) points.

so far, ok.

then, considering you hit another ball first:

- foul points depending on the ball that was hit first: in your case, that's five foul points, because of hitting blue.

the fact that the blue hits the black after is NOT considered a foul. you can move which ever ball you want with a legal or a foul stroke - number of foul points is calculated from the value of the shot (ball on) and the ball hit first.

(of course, this differs if one of the balls moved and not on ends up i a pocket. moving a ball not on is no foul, sinking it IS)

[The Statman]

Yes, it's covered in section 3, Rule 12: Penalties.

http://www.worldsnooker.com/rules_of_snooker.htm

It is not helpful that, in this section, the subdivisions are not indented from the left hand edge, so this may be a helpful layout. I've put the bits relevant to your shot in bold:

12. Penalties
All fouls will incur a penalty of four points unless a higher one is indicated in paragraph (a) to (d) below. Penalties are:
(a) value of the ball on by
–(i) striking the cue-ball more than once
–(ii) etc. [none of part (a) is relevant in your case]
(b) value of the ball on or ball concerned, whichever is higher, by
–(i)
–(ii)
–(iii) causing a ball not on to enter a pocket
–(iv) causing the cue-ball to first hit a ball not on

In the last two part (iv), it makes clear that it is only the first ball hit by the white in a stroke that has any relevance, as long as nothing goes into a pocket.

In your case the white hit the blue and then the black, so it is a foul 5 (the ball on or ball concerned – in this case the blue).

But, if the black had then gone into a pocket, the previous part (iii) comes into play and it would be a foul 7 because black is the ball concerned. In this case there will have been two fouls in the shot, firstly hitting the blue and secondly pocketing the black. Rule 11 says that if more than one foul occurs in a shot, the higher/highest one will be awarded.