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Is this a Foul? (jump ball)

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  • #1

    Is this a Foul? (jump ball)

    Me and my mates were playing doubles tonight (not IRL, but online at VP4). The "referee" (the computer) called a foul on a particular shot, and replays suggested that the cue ball had jumped (but just barely) one red, on its way to the object ball. Fair enough. That's a foul. A discussion then ensued, about real life snooker, and about the refs NOT calling fouls on certain close jump shots. Someone then posted this old video of Bill W. and a miraculous fluke...(see link below) and the question arose: Was this a foul? The white left the table, then landed and bounced again...seemingly over the green ball.

    Questions...
    1...Did the white "jump" the green? Was it in fact a foul that was not called? Or did it not jump the green at all?

    2...If in fact the white did go "over" the green, is the rule in effect, or does the rule cease to be relevant after that first bounce?

    Thanks all for you comments. Here's the shot in question:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgBfkjkpZcc

    *sorry, don't know how to activate hyperlink...please copy and paste





    Tags: None
  • #2
    ~2 is correct
    A jump shot is where the cue ball goes over a ball that it would otherwise have hit - except where it jumps because of hitting another ball, or a cushion and (not specifically noted in the rules) the cloth of the bed of the table.


    *system auto links URLs
    Up the TSF! :snooker:

    Comment

    • #3
      We're the rules different back in Big Bill's days Dean or did the ref just miss that foul.
      This is how you play darts ,MVG two nines in the same match!
      https://youtu.be/yqTGtwOpHu8

      Comment

      • #4
        Originally Posted by itsnoteasy View Post
        We're the rules different back in Big Bill's days Dean or did the ref just miss that foul.
        I think that because it hopped over the first red on the second bounce that the ref allowed it, as he would have if it had left the table after first hitting a cushion, not sure that the bed of the table is considered a fitting of the table like the cushions are.
        Speak up, you've got to speak up against the madness, you've got speak your mind if you dare
        but don't try to get yourself elected, for if you do you'll have to cut your hair

        Comment

        • #5
          Originally Posted by itsnoteasy View Post
          We're the rules different back in Big Bill's days Dean or did the ref just miss that foul.
          Apologies missed this reply
          The rules were the same in these days (WSC 85 I think ) - they were the same all the way back to 1968, maybe even further back.

          I don't think this is a Foul, as mentioned above previously, the way I see it the jump of a ball is after bouncing on the cloth, which is similar situation as stated in the rules about bouncing off a cushion or another ball; and not being a foul.
          I have asked my ref contact to clarify
          Up the TSF! :snooker:

          Comment

          • #6
            Ah so it has to be a direct jump, not a bounce jump.
            This is how you play darts ,MVG two nines in the same match!
            https://youtu.be/yqTGtwOpHu8

            Comment

            • #7
              Originally Posted by itsnoteasy View Post
              Ah so it has to be a direct jump, not a bounce jump.
              that is my thinking
              Up the TSF! :snooker:

              Comment

              • #8
                Vanwinkle - you are correct - the referee missed this Foul.
                vmax - ref missed the foul.
                itsnoteasy - not as we thought.

                so my top pro ref contact replied.

                This scenario is a FOUL. It is a Jump Shot.

                The exceptions are as stipulated in the rules, bouncing off a ball or the cushion (after hitting a ball legally) - then no foul jumping over an intervening ball.

                Bouncing on the cloth is not an exception.

                Learn something everyday

                EDIT
                Last edited by DeanH; 12 February 2023, 09:49 AM.
                Up the TSF! :snooker:

                Comment

                • #9
                  Thank Dean, and to your referee contact, and to all who replied.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Originally Posted by DeanH View Post
                    Vanwinkle - you are correct - the referee missed this Foul.
                    vmax - ref missed the foul.
                    itsnoteasy - not as we thought.

                    so my top pro ref contact replied.

                    This scenario is a FOUL. It is a Jump Shot.

                    The exceptions are as stipulated in the rules, bouncing off a ball or the cushion - then no foul jumping over an intervening ball.

                    Bouncing on the cloth is not an exception.

                    Learn something everyday
                    jump cushion.png
                    From Asian Billiards and Snooker Federation.
                    If the cueball strikes a cushion first, then jumps over the object ball - foul.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Originally Posted by taipafan View Post

                      jump cushion.png
                      From Asian Billiards and Snooker Federation.
                      If the cueball strikes a cushion first, then jumps over the object ball - foul.


                      You are correct.

                      Let's start with the rules:

                      Sec 2.20 Jump Shot
                      A jump shot is made when the cue ball passes over any part of an object ball, whether hitting it in the process or not, except:
                      (a) when the cue ball first hits one object ball, other than a touching ball, and then jumps over another ball; or
                      (b) when the cue ball jumps and hits an object ball, other than a touching ball, and at the moment of landing on the playing area, the cue ball is not on the far side of the current position of that object ball; or
                      (c) when, after legally hitting an object ball, other than a touching ball, the cue ball jumps over that ball after hitting a cushion or another ball.


                      Highlighted the pertinent words "after legally hitting an object ball"
                      So in your scenario it is a Foul, as no legal ball is hit first.

                      Original post above updated.

                      Do you have a link to this site?
                      Up the TSF! :snooker:

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Originally Posted by DeanH View Post


                        Do you have a link to this site?
                        Sorry, I don't have the link.
                        The picture is from their year book (copy), not from their site.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Originally Posted by taipafan View Post
                          Sorry, I don't have the link.
                          The picture is from their year book (copy), not from their site.
                          oh drat

                          thanks
                          Up the TSF! :snooker:

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            https://photos.app.goo.gl/mJfE7ntajHWqiZX56

                            https://photos.app.goo.gl/YD6GfFtune3NAzhZ8

                            https://photos.app.goo.gl/F6WXLsfSeNxZNBSs7

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              hahaha
                              Very similar to the Sussex Referees Association Rules Explanation booklet, words only no photos though, which unfortunately recently has been discontinued
                              Up the TSF! :snooker:

                              Comment

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