Help with scoring

[Joe171]

First post here so tia for advise.
I help run a local league(only 10 team)
we have a few lads who have numeracy issues and I want to bring something in to assist them while keeping the integrity of the rules. So, its either relaxing the rules as to what the ref can do or allow assistance from the sidelines?

[DeanH]

are you saying that the ref is NOT a member of a team or is?

If like the old league games I used to go to, the Home team would acts as referees, so are you saying that when one of the aforementioned team members is refereeing you want help?

Within the Rules, you can have a Referee and a Marker (another member of the Team) to assist them with the break calling and registering the score on the scoreboard.
Inform the opponent team's captain before the start that you will be doing this due to whatever, I am sure they wont mind.
Nothing in the rules against the referee using their phone as a calculator?

[Joe171]

Sorry, should have explained more in depth, 2 table venues so we usually have one home team member one away team member scoring the frames. Those who struggle tend to avoid marking which is fine but some when playing struggle with regards to poss snooker required situations ect. The rules state the ref can't be asked what the difference is for instance so do we relax that rule or let a team mate assist.

[itsnoteasy]

You could have the ref call the difference between they players and how many is left on the table, or would that be too difficult?
Sorry if that sounds patronising, it's not meant to.

[DeanH]

Sorry, should have explained more in depth, 2 table venues so we usually have one home team member one away team member scoring the frames. Those who struggle tend to avoid marking which is fine but some when playing struggle with regards to poss snooker required situations ect. The rules state the ref can't be asked what the difference is for instance so do we relax that rule or let a team mate assist.

The referee can call the break and what the scores are at that time if asked, but the referee can not do the calculation - what is available on the table.
Sorry but the players with calculating issues will have to work out it themselves, maybe team members can teacher them a simple methods to do so, like memories the "1 red = 35 left, 2 reds = 43, etc."
And methods to calculate the difference.

Sorry but doing the difference and what is left is deemed to be giving an advantage to one player.

[Nifty50]

Sounds like my league is extremely relaxed. Home team provides the ref who marks up the score as well. If ref is asked “how many in it” he/she will usually tell the player. Doesn’t seem a big deal to me. I have seen occasions where the ref says “sorry can’t help” not because he/she is being difficult but more because they’re not that good at mental arithmetic. No one seems to bother if there’s a bit of help from the sidelines. It’s not really gaining much of an advantage IMO.

[itsnoteasy]

The referee can call the break and what the scores are at that time if asked, but the referee can not do the calculation - what is available on the table.
Sorry but the players with calculating issues will have to work out it themselves, maybe team members can teacher them a simple methods to do so, like memories the "1 red = 35 left, 2 reds = 43, etc."
And methods to calculate the difference.

Sorry but doing the difference and what is left is deemed to be giving an advantage to one player.

Jeez, it's not the crucible, it's about helping and encouraging everyone to play.
Tough school

[Joe171]

Nifty50, I think that's what we would like to do as it's v much club level stuff however we do have a few(better players) who are more picky for the wpbsa rules(as Dean H has quoted) trying to get a happy medium between a load of blokes is not easy 🙄😬🤣

[DeanH]

well of course my comments are per the Rules and Pro level....
Amateur and local league - as long as opponents don't start shouting the roof off with cries of "coaching", helping....

FYI - It is deemed to be giving an advantage to one player because the information given by the referee can/could affect the next shot by the player.

[Nifty50]

Yes Dean, coaching, as in telling someone what shot to play, is a definite no no in a competitive match at any level.

[itsnoteasy]

I do hope, the better players insist you play the miss rule correctly and put it back when asked every single time it's called, don't want to be accused of not playing to the rules.

[DeanH]

Of course, if the player has a diagnosed condition of dyscalculia, then the referee can assist when asked.

[vmax]

well of course my comments are per the Rules and Pro level....
Amateur and local league - as long as opponents don't start shouting the roof off with cries of "coaching", helping....

FYI - It is deemed to be giving an advantage to one player because the information given by the referee can/could affect the next shot by the player.

The rule is there because the ref might get it wrong and that's why when I'm reffing I only call the two scores out, the difference between them is for the players to calculate and if they get it wrong then there's no one else to blame..
I don't see a problem with putting a red times table on the wall of the snooker room, ie: one red = 35, two reds = 43, three reds = 51, four reds = 59 etc etc but that's as far as I would go.

These players who have problems will have to learn, it's very very basic maths and if you're leaving school without this level of calculus then it's a failure of the education system that allows calculators and computers to do the basics for pupils. There was nothing like that when I went to school, you learned your times tables by rote, did your addition, subtraction, division both long and short on paper showing how you went about working it out. It stuck in your mind because you actually learned how numbers work rather than just look it up using a machine.

I went through this when I first took up darts, subtraction in my head rather than using a pen and paper like I'd been taught at school. In the end you learn through experience and then automatically know what the score will be after such and such has been thrown because the same numbers keep cropping up, what combination you need to check out, what missing a dart in that combination will leave you and you can then play without having to stop to work it out.

[itsnoteasy]

I thought we were talking about players with learning difficulties, if they are just a bit thick they have to work it out themselves

[Nifty50]

Sometimes it’s hard to calculate in the heat of the moment. I know a lad who couldn’t tell you what 1+1 is when the pressure is on. He’s not thick it’s just his brain goes to mush when under stress.