Rule question

[Texas Snooker]

During the yellow to black ascension phase following the elimination of the reds, if the color being on is potted but the white runs off, does the ball get respotted? I know the opponent gets the penalty points and the shot. (I assume if the ball is respotted that it can produce a free ball if less than 100% of the ball cannot be accessed from the white in the D.)

[WilliamKent]

Yes, the colour does gets respotted, execpt in the case of the black when black is only ball on the table. However if the scores are then tied, the black is respotted and the players toss for next shot from the D. Winner of the toss can send the other into bat.

[MrRottweiler]

I think when there is a foul with just the black remaining the frame is over even if the score difference is less than seven points and the player in the lead wins the frame.

[DeanH]

WK and MrR have answered correctly, although to expand...

During the yellow to black ascension phase following the elimination of the reds, if the color being on is potted but the white runs off, does the ball get respotted?

Yes the colour is spotted and the non-offending player has cue-ball 'in-hand' and plays from the D.
EXCEPT when it is only the Black left on the table; the Black is not spotted, as the first scoring pot or foul ends the frame and the player with the most points after the penalty points are added is the winner. IF the scores are now equal, then a tie-break is played with the Black spotted, cue-ball played from in-hand, and the players decide who plays first. Again, the first scoring pot or foul ends the frame.

I know the opponent gets the penalty points and the shot. (I assume if the ball is respotted that it can produce a free ball if less than 100% of the ball cannot be accessed from the white in the D.)

The non-offending player gains the penalty points as per the value of the ball concerned.
When the ball concerned is spotted then it is possible there could be a snooker and therefore a freeball.
If there is a place in the D where there is no snooker, then regardless of where the player places the cue-ball, there is NO snooker.

"100% of the ball" is a worrying phrase, as it could be thought to mean "full-ball". To judge a free ball is deciding whether the ball on is snookered, that is the cue-ball can or cannot not hit BOTH extreme edges of the ball on. If it can, no snooker; if it can not, snooker.


Please have a look at the following post that explains the scenarios for judging a free ball:
https://www.thesnookerforum.co.uk/bo...f-you-have-one


I have added below the images referenced in the text as the original attachments have been lost 😊

[DeanH]

Texas - while watching the snooker I thought I would breakdown your scenario and the comments above with the applicable rules

Texas - if you have not already you can download a PDF version of the rules from here and you can also order a little hardcopy - handy pocket size
https://wpbsa.com/rules/


"…does the ball get respotted?"
Sec 3.7 Spotting Colours
Any colour potted, pocketed or forced off the table shall be spotted before the next stroke is made, …

"…opponent gets the penalty points…"
Sec 3.11 Penalty Values
The following acts are fouls and incur a four penalty points unless higher penalty points are indicated in paragraphs (a) to (d) below:
(a) Value of the ball on by: ...
(vii) causing the cue ball to be pocketed;

"… and the shot"
Sec 2.5 Striker and Turn
The person about to play or in play is the striker. It is their turn until: ...
(b) a foul is committed, …

"…the white in the D."
Sec 2.9 In hand
(a) The cue ball is in hand: ...
(ii) when it has been pocketed;


"…a free ball…"
Sec 3.12 Snookered After a Foul
After a foul, if the cue ball is snookered (see Section 2, Rule 17), the referee shall call FREE BALL.

"…if less than 100% of the ball cannot be accessed…"
Sec 2.17 Snookered
The cue ball is snookered when a direct stroke in a straight line to every ball on is wholly or partially obstructed by a ball or balls not on. If one or more balls on can be hit at both extreme edges free of obstruction by any ball not on, the cue ball is not snookered.

"…from the white in the D."
Sec 2.17 Snookered ...
(a) If in hand, the cue ball is snookered if it is obstructed as described above from all possible positions on or within the lines of the “D”.

Here are the rules for when Black is the only ball on the table.
Sec 3.4. End of Frame, Game or Match
(a) When Black is the only object ball remaining on the table, the first pot or foul ends the frame excepting only if the following conditions both apply:
(i) the scores are then equal; and
(ii) aggregate scores are not relevant.
(b) When both conditions in (a) above apply:
(i) the Black is spotted;
(ii) the players draw lots for choice of playing next;
(iii) the next player plays from in hand; and
(iv) the first pot or infringement ends the frame.

[Stoddmixing]

Hi all, I had a match last night and this came up, the other guy potted the white and the only reds I could hit were on the bottom rail, playing the white from the D, is this a free ball?
on the attached pic they were put back after the game for me to ask the question, apart from the black all the colours were on there spots.

Help I cannot upload the picture

[Stoddmixing]

In the middle on the bottom rail we're, a red, red, black, red ,red all touching in a line along the bottom rail, is this a free ball as the white was potted and was playing from the D, as I cannot hit both sides of a red

[DeanH]

Hi all, I had a match last night and this came up, the other guy potted the white and the only reds I could hit were on the bottom rail, playing the white from the D, is this a free ball?
on the attached pic they were put back after the game for me to ask the question, apart from the black all the colours were on there spots.

If you CAN hit both edge of any SINGLE Red from ANYWHERE in the D - no Snooker, no Free Ball option.

If you CAN NOT hit both edge of ALL Reds from EVERYWHERE in the D - Snooker, Free Ball option.


(by the way, historically and officially the rail by the Black is called the Top Rail and the Baulk Rail Bottom rail
which is weird as not as seen on TV etc.
for ease I call them Black and Baulk rails for clarity )

Help I cannot upload the picture

How to add images to your TSF posts
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ImgBB.com
Click on "Start Uploading".
Browse to the file and select it, click Open.
Auto delete image - leave as "Don't autodelete".
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Change "Embed Codes" to "BBCode full linked".

Hover mouse over the code in the box, a "COPY" will appear, click this.
Go to your TSF post and paste.
You can repeat for multiple images in a single post.

[DeanH]

In the middle on the bottom rail we're, a red, red, black, red ,red all touching in a line along the bottom rail, is this a free ball as the white was potted and was playing from the D, as I cannot hit both sides of a red

When considering multiple Reds for snooker - and hence possible Free Ball option, EACH Red has to be considered individually as if it is the only Red left on the table.

A reminder - cushions are NOT taken in account when considering if a snooker exists.

So in your scenario the only ball that is considered a Snookering Ball is the Black and you view each Red individually in relation to the Black.

A reminder - the "extreme edges" of a ball is NOT the physical Diameter of the Object ball perpendicular from the Cue Ball of the sphere but the tangents from the Cue Ball to the Object Ball which can be closer than the 180Deg. see the images above to see the extreme edges points of contact shown are different depending on the distance between the Cue Ball and the Object Ball.

[Stoddmixing]

Hi all please read my post above and see where the balls were, yellow, brown, green and blue were all on the spots.

[Stoddmixing]

Hi all please read my post above and see where the balls were, yellow, brown, green and blue were all on the spots.

Hi all, I had a match last night and this came up, the other guy potted the white and the only reds I could hit were on the bottom rail, playing the white from the D, is this a free ball?
on the attached pic they were put back after the game for me to ask the question, apart from the black all the colours were on there spots.

[DeanH]

So Ball In Hand, it is possible that it is not a snooker, so no Free Ball option; as the left-most Red could (I say could) possibly be contacted on both extreme edges. Remember the Red next to it is not considered as each Red is considered on its own.
Also remember that the contact on the right-side of this left-most Red, the cue ball MUST hit the Red first and not simultaneously with the Black.

I say 'could' because unless you are there at the table at that time and clearly seeing the real situation.

As with all scenarios of multiple Reds, if any single Red is NOT snookered, there is no snooker; if ALL Reds are snookered then there is a snooker.

[Nifty50]

Dean, as you say would need to see it. Maybe need to do a measurement. The left hand red looks like it might slightly overlap the 2nd red on the left. Mite mean there is not a ball width (2 1/16) between red and black so you can’t cut the extreme edge. Maybe not explained that too well but home you get the guist.

[Stoddmixing]

Hi all,

Many thanks for your reply, I just put the reds like that to roughly show but the original scenario was all the 4 balls were in a straight line and none forward than any other.

[Stoddmixing]

All the colours apart from.the black.were on there spots with a ball in hand