foul

[bluenose1940]

Hi folks, I'm looking for an urgent answer to a foul question please. Player A pots a red but is then snookered on all of the colours. He nominates a thee Green as the colour but has to use the rest to play the shot. Whilst putting the rest into position he touches a Red. The penalty id 4 points I assume but, what happens next? Can Player B ask him to play again or should he just continue as normal and try to pot a Red?

[DeanH]

Foul 4 (Green nominated) - correct
Ball on = Red.

The non-offending player has the usual two options -
(1) play themselves from where the balls come to rest.
(2) ask the offending player to play from where the balls come to rest.

[bluenose1940]

Thank you DeanH. If you ask the offending player to play again, does he have to re-try to hit the Green or does he play a Red?

Thanks for the prompt reply 👍

[DeanH]

Thank you DeanH. If you ask the offending player to play again, does he have to re-try to hit the Green or does he play a Red?

Thanks for the prompt reply 👍

There was no Miss called, so the order of play continues, so Ball On is now Red; for whoever plays

[Nifty50]

There was no Miss called, so the order of play continues, so Ball On is now Red; for whoever plays

That’s a good one Dean. I had a similar situation a few years ago. My opponent asked me to play again and try to hit the green. No miss rule in our league. My brain must have been scrambled as I went along with him and attempted to hit the green. Missed.

[Londonlad147]

Foul 4 (Green nominated) - correct
Ball on = Red.

The non-offending player has the usual two options -
(1) play themselves from where the balls come to rest.
(2) ask the offending player to play from where the balls come to rest.

Dean, that's not the whole story. The 2019 rules added a further option:

(i) If a striker fouls any ball including the cue-ball prior to striking it, the appropriate penalty will be imposed. The non-offender may then elect to play themselves from the position left, or request the offender to play again from the position left or the original position. In the latter case, all balls shall be replaced and the ball on shall be the same as it was prior to the infringement, namely:
(i) any Red, where Red was the ball on;
(ii) the colour on, where all the Reds were off the table;
(iii) a colour of the striker’s choice, where the ball on was a colour after a Red, or a free ball nominated as a Red had been potted.
A consultation period starts when the request is made to replace the ball(s).

[DeanH]

Dean. that's not the whole story. The 2019 rules added a further option:

(i) If a striker fouls any ball including the cue-ball prior to striking it, the appropriate penalty will be imposed. The non-offender may then elect to play themselves from the position left, or request the offender to play again from the position left or the original position. In the latter case, all balls shall be replaced and the ball on shall be the same as it was prior to the infringement, namely:
(i) any Red, where Red was the ball on;
(ii) the colour on, where all the Reds were off the table;
(iii) a colour of the striker’s choice, where the ball on was a colour after a Red, or a free ball nominated as a Red had been potted.
A consultation period starts when the request is made to replace the ball(s).

So a Miss could have been called, thanks for the enlightenment

excuse me for being a dullard; a Miss would not have been called; this is the time when balls can be replaced as well as due to a Miss and Ball on Edge

[bluenose1940]

Further to Londonlad147 mentioning an additional option to the rules in2019, Am I correct in thinking that this 'further option' will only apply when a miss has been called? If a miss has been called, does item (iii) mean that the offender can change his mind a go for a different colour with their second and any subsequent attempt?

We don't use the miss rule at our club and so I am assuming that we would follow DeanH's explanation at#4 above.

i find many of the rules of snooker to be quite complex at times. Where can I find this particular rule in the ruleboom?

Thanks again for all the help.

[DeanH]

Further to Londonlad147 mentioning an additional option to the rules in2019, Am I correct in thinking that this 'further option' will only apply when a miss has been called?

No, this can occur after a foul as described - "...fouls...prior to striking it..."; not necessarily a Miss.

...If a miss has been called, does item (iii) mean that the offender can change his mind a go for a different colour with their second and any subsequent attempt?

This stipulation is already in the Foul and a Miss ruling; if allowed due to Ball On the offending player being put back in can change their nomination.
In your scenario Red has been potted and then foul, so the offending player can change to another colour if they so wish.

We don't use the miss rule at our club and so I am assuming that we would follow DeanH's explanation at#4 above.

As stated this option is part of the Fouls listing in the rules - as well as part of the Miss rule.

[Londonlad147]

So a Miss could have been called, thanks for the enlightenment

excuse me for being a dullard; a Miss would not have been called; this is the time when balls can be replaced as well as due to a Miss and Ball on Edge

Indeed, no miss. A miss can only be called if a stroke has been played.

[Londonlad147]

Further to Londonlad147 mentioning an additional option to the rules in2019, Am I correct in thinking that this 'further option' will only apply when a miss has been called? If a miss has been called, does item (iii) mean that the offender can change his mind a go for a different colour with their second and any subsequent attempt?

We don't use the miss rule at our club and so I am assuming that we would follow DeanH's explanation at#4 above.

i find many of the rules of snooker to be quite complex at times. Where can I find this particular rule in the ruleboom?

Thanks again for all the help.

What I quoted was from 3.10 'Fouls'. As Dean said, it applies after any foul, not just F&M.