Another free ball question.

[bluenose1940]

Playing doubles at the club yesterday a situation arose regarding a free ball.

I have attached an image of how the balls were placed at the time.

I had failed to get out of a snooker and therefore a foul was called. Our opponents said that it was a free ball but I disagreed. Me and my partner did allow the free ball because we were unsure as to what was correct.

The opponents used the usual argument that they were unable to hit the very extreme edges of the green, i.e. at the diameter of the ball.

I disagreed on the basis that even if the black and brown balls had not been next to the green, they still would be unable to hit the very extremeties of the green. My argument was that because of the close proximity of the cue ball to the ball on, the two extreme points that could be hit had changed, i.e. narrowed. Therefore on the basis that both of these points on the object ball could be hit, even with the black and brown balls being where they were, then it was not a free ball.

Any thoughts will be appreciated, even if I'm wrong 😂

Free Ball question 01_03_2025.pdf

[itsnoteasy]

As we look at the picture, I would say they can hit the green as much as is possible on our right. On the left, it's tight but I don't think they can hit their edge, so to speak, so I would call that a free ball, it is tightish though imo.

[DeanH]

Reminder - it is NOT "the diameter of the ball" - it is the extreme edges of the ball, which always change as the distance between the cue ball and object ball change.

As per your scenario the extreme edges of the Green - available to the right (Brown does not impeded that contact; not available on the left as the Black would be contacted first.

Snooker exists - as both extreme edges cannot be hit - there fore a Free Ball is an option.

Read this post from a long time ago from a pro referee (page 1, first post)
https://www.thesnookerforum.co.uk/bo...e-one#post9799

for images that work: (page 4 2nd from last post)
https://www.thesnookerforum.co.uk/bo...91#post1022191


I repeat it is NOT the diameter

[Nifty50]

I think if it’s really tight like this and there’s no ref then should be NO free ball. Happens a lot in my club.

[Ginger Freak]

As Dean said, its not the two edges of the object ball itself that need to be hit, it's the two edges of the object ball that the white can 'see' Therefore in this instance, the black is impeding the right edge of what the white can see so free ball.

If the white had been practically touching the green, and directly above it, then it would be no free ball

[bluenose1940]

Apologies for the delay in getting back on this.

I'm afraid that I made a bit of a mishmash of the drawing. I mentioned in my original post that "both of these points could be hit" meaning the two extemeties of the green object ball, therefore I regarded it as not being a free ball. I can understand what you chaps are saying in your replies because the drawing does in fact show the black ball impeding the right edge when in reality this was not the case. My wording in the post was correct but, my poor drawing has confused things somewhat I'm afraid. Sorry!

[DeanH]

You were correct then if both extreme edges can be hit by the cue ball without any impediment by any other ball; then no snooker, therefore no free ball.

My argument was that because of the close proximity of the cue ball to the ball on, the two extreme points that could be hit had changed, i.e. narrowed. Therefore on the basis that both of these points on the object ball could be hit, even with the black and brown balls being where they were, then it was not a free ball.[ATTACH]n1042292[/ATTACH]

You were correct.

It is not the diameter of the object ball but the extreme edges the cue ball could hit.
You are correct in saying, as the distance gets smaller between the cue ball and the object ball, the angle - and hence points of extreme contact changes.