transmitting side??

[matoski]

This question was treated in many other threades, but anyway. My opinion is that transfering side exists and you can see it's effect clearly during a bank (crossdouble) shots. Also if you want to pot a ball using the jaw of the pocket the correct side on the cue ball helps a lot.
Bok druze:snooker:

[DandyA]

I don't think any of us are disagreeing are we?

All I am saying is side on the cue ball will mostly "throw" the object ball ... there must be some transfer of side because of the time the cue and object ball were in contact but it is very, very little so I certainlty consider it of no practical use ...

But "throw" can definitely help and throw the object ball maybe 3 degrees wider - not earth shattering but enough to make the pot in some circumstances ... I'm not sure your argument that if there is throw, them there also be transferrence of side applies ... indeed, quite the opposite, surely if the side on the cueball was largely maintained on the cueball, and some of that side also caused the object ball to "throw", then there's even less energy to transfer into opposite side on the onject ball ...

BTW PQ - what's this "wet" transfer mentioned in your post above ... that sounds interesting

[poolqjunkie]

You know what, as I read all the posts, i think we might be all talking about the same thing, but with different terms.

As I see it, we all agree that

1.side can be transferred from the cue ball to the object ball.
2.We all agree that side transferred can be used to alter the path of the object ball.
3.We all agree that top and bottom also can be transferred, as well as being used in making doubles.

Is that correct?

The disagreement/question is
1. how significant this transfer is,
2. and whether the "smooth" surface of the balls can serve to really transfer a significant amount of side.

I think our agreement on the first three points have answered the first disagreement/question, and the second disagreement/question should not be an issue because no one is claiming that a large amount of side is transferred.

If you watch the slow motion videos, you will notice that the object ball only spin for a split second after contact, yet this tiny bit of spin was enough to alter the path of the ball.

To see how friction can affect the pot, I would suggest perhaps you may try to apply some WD-40 lubricate on the contact point of the ball, or just wet the balls contact balls, and watch the reaction. It should be rather obvious that friction between balls are significant from watching the strange way the balls react when such friction is reduced.

[DandyA]

yep totally agree PQ ...

the simple facts of the matter are there is an amount of time the cueball and object ball are in contact with each other - it may appear "instant" to the naked eye but that is simply because the human eye can't detect these things ...

stating the obvious, films are shown at 25 (or is it 24) pictures per second but us humans see this as continuous ... it's not! each picture is around 40 milliseconds apart ...

I have no idea long the contact is between cue ball and object ball but there is a period of contact whereby spin can (and in fact must) tranfer = it has to transfer because there must be some friction between the surface of the cue ball and object ball ... all I've been suggesting is it's very little and I personally haven't been convinced by any videos showing a significant effect ... but, I could well be wrong given it must happen!

The WD-40 thing ... I haven't tried that but there is a very easy way to win 10p off your mates on a similar vein to demonstrate friction ... I'll describe it on a UK 8-ball table but the same must apply to snooker ...

put the white ball on the baulk line - put your finger on top of the white - the challenge is whether you can make the white hit the black cushion 6 feet away ... have as many goes as you like ...

you can't because your finger as it pushes the cue ball forward also puts backspin on the white stopping it's forward motion so the white only goes a foot or two ... how to win the bet? lick your finger before you play the shot - much less friction, no backspin ... try it, it works!

[lkomarci]

yep I guess we agree poolq.

DandyA, there are cameras called high-speed cameras that give you slo-mo video of several hundred frames per second

[Inverted-spin]

Transmitted side occurs!

It's not particularly relevant in snooker, apart from in 'doubles'.

It makes a big difference if you know what you are doing, in billiards. Although it doesn't change the angles much, it's enough to really make a difference, especially on gathering cannons.

[roykay]

Transmitted side does happen. It is important to understand the difference between throw and the object ball spinning.Good billiard players are aware of this and the effect can be seen by observing the path the object ball takes when coming off of a cushion.
Place the cue ball and object ball on the baulk line. Experiment with side playing the ball to hit the side cushion just out of baulk and bring it back into baulk and visa versa.
Or play it along the line with either side and observe the effect. You will have to allow for throw in aiming but if you can take the ball along the line then back into baulk or out of baulk by using left or right hand side I think the case is proved. Although the effect is slight it is useable.
Roy Bacon