Define high break

[RGCirencester]

Ok, so i miss a pot in practice, leave a red over the pocket, pot red black. my new highest break is 8, but your saying i made it too easy for myself and therfore is not a highest break?
OK, so my oponent misses the red, it hits another red knocks both of them over the pocket, i pot red black red, and now i am allowed to call my highest break 9?
I didn't personally try to put the red over the pocket in practice, nor did my oponent in a match so i do not see the problem with either being a high break!
As for the pressure personally i feel that when you are playing for something. such as in a league you can have a competive high break as well as your standard high break. I am not debating that, but personally against friends i do not feel the pressure, its just me and my mates having a game. Then you can consider the pressure you feel in practice, regardless of whether there is an oponent there or not, the pressure of making your first 50 for example is still there in practice! If your high break is not to win a tournament or something, but just another game against your friend surely it is the same pressure? Your not thinking, i must beat my mate, your thinking "i must get a highest break"

Edit: Lawyer i agree the lineup is different because the balls are placed in familiar positions in deliberate places. But if you just randomly place the balls and can still make a 147, then you have proven you have the skill to make a 147, and therefore that is your highest break!

[Forman]

My mate had a 147 in practice on the line up but counts his high break as being 102.

I have had a 138 but my high break is 117 so no I dont agree but good point.

im the same, ive had a 129 in the line up but i consider my hight break to be 88 because thats the highest ive made against an opponent, i dont make a distinction between a friendly against a mate and a tournement match though, as long as im playing against some one and not by myself ill count it as my highest break

[RGCirencester]

Roy just said something to me in chat...
"Your highest break is a measure of what standard to aspire to play to"

Now this is a fact i whole heartedly agree with. It is a measure of your skill. If you have made a 96 in practice, then this show you have the ability to make a 96 break. Now, on a good day, when you are playing well, and are able to completely put your oponent outof your mind, you WILL be able to play to this standard. Regardless of whether your breaks in matches are 8 or 80, you have the technical ability and expertise to play to this level, so why should it not be your highest break?

[bigkev]

i think that if you are practise like it was a game including a proper break and playing every shot as you would then it counts, doesn't willie thorn have a bunch of maximums a lot of which were done in practise, agreed that the pressure of a game can make a difference but you shouldn't think "if i miss" cause then you probaly will your opponent can't beat you if they are sitting down or being the ballboy

[LavaChild]

Ok, so i miss a pot in practice, leave a red over the pocket, pot red black. my new highest break is 8, but your saying i made it too easy for myself and therfore is not a highest break?
OK, so my oponent misses the red, it hits another red knocks both of them over the pocket, i pot red black red, and now i am allowed to call my highest break 9?

To put this question forward in a more fair manner it would be you missing and leaving a pot on to then get red black or you leaving a pot on which knocks another ball over the pocket which you then get red black red with. You're quoting two different scenarios. In both of those cases if you reach that situation in legitimate game play it is different to practice. You miss and you benefit. Not like that in a match.

You seem adamant that everybody else is looking at it from the wrong angle, but seem reluctant to try it yourself.

The point people are trying to make is that in a practice situation you have positioned the balls in some way. You can either spread them (Unrealistic) or you can break, but even this is unrealistic... Normally you'd do everything you can to ensure you don't leave anything on. If you do this in practice then there is very little chance of a break (And I'd be willing to bet you don't break in practice in the same way that you do in a game). Alternative you could smash the balls, but again, this is no longer realistic.

Both of the above methods I believe can be important as part of a practice schedule and in fact I scatter that balls myself as I’m not consistent enough to try a “real” routine… But never do I count points, only pots.

On the note of a friend leaving you on; This is possible but it is bringing the nature of competitive play into it... Something again not possible with one player. Likewise, if you leave a friend on if you miss who knows whether he may go on to clear the table or not, and you'd never get to pot another ball in that frame... No more chances for a high break there. But in practice you'd pot the "easy" ball you've just left on by a miss and then continue to create another break...

Clearly, only one player is at the table as any one instant, therefore the question to ask is whether practice offers the same openings as a friendly. However, considering by yourself you are unlikely to ever play a safety and will no doubt attempt to take any/every pot on this is not the same and it means that after a miss the balls will be in a different position to where they’d sit when you come to the table in a conventional again.

In a real game is you miss it’s your opponents turn. If we can assume that both you and your opponent are of equal skill level, then if you leave the table in the position where you are able to construct a break (After a miss) then it is fair to say that in a real game your opponent would have done the same thing… And it’d be them with the new high break, not you. The amount of times I leave a pot on after I’ve missed a certain pot and watch my opponent come to the table and play well… Not only does this knock your confidence and perhaps affect future play but it’s a situation not possible to replicate alone.

The example about a 147 also doesn't hold water over the range of the argument, as this implies you didn't miss a single ball, therefore leaving a ball on after a miss never comes into it.

We can all make up examples which defend our point but at the end of the day the point remains: Snooker is a game about two people, despite the fact never do both play at the precise same time. Therefore this situation cannot be replicated. By all means keep a log of your practice "records" but they are in no way interchangeable with a match (Friendly/league/etc) high break. (On this note I'd like to suggest that once at a high enough level there is a distinction between a friendly and league but at the level I play at where league doesn't even come into it, they are one of the same - I still feel pressure if I'm knocking balls in against a friend "in practice" once I'd pot a red-black combination!).

Do you still believe that there is no distinction between playing a game and practice?

Roy just said something to me in chat...
"Your highest break is a measure of what standard to aspire to play to"

Now this is a fact i whole heartedly agree with. It is a measure of your skill. If you have made a 96 in practice, then this show you have the ability to make a 96 break. Now, on a good day, when you are playing well, and are able to completely put your oponent outof your mind, you WILL be able to play to this standard. Regardless of whether your breaks in matches are 8 or 80, you have the technical ability and expertise to play to this level, so why should it not be your highest break?

Because in this situation you are unable to show this level of skill in a match (No doubt due to some of the reasons above)... And by your own admission: "It is a measure of your skill".

[atm147iwish]

there has been a lot of time and text that has gone into these replies, but in short, your HB can surely only count against an opponent... end of!

[RocketRoy1983]

there has been a lot of time and text that has gone into these replies, but in short, your HB can surely only count against an opponent... end of!

A very short and naive comment my friend. If people wish to proudly say their HB is 100 yet not state whether it was in a match or not then dont deny them the opportunity. If you would rather mention only yours against someone then fair play you carry on doing that.

[atm147iwish]

garbage!
naive? - cheeky monkey!
i can't hit a 50, but on the very rare opportunity to practise, i place 10 reds in and around black and pink, so thats a minimum of 70, maximum 80... but thats not my high break.

(HB -48)

[RocketRoy1983]

If you dont count it as your HB then thats fair enough. But I would as ive still potted those balls and countless others would too. So we disagree so what lkets chill out and have a beer it is my day off after all!

[thinsy]

My opinion:

I only consider a full frame against an opponent (not against myself) as counting as a highest break.

And, i am also quite happy to seperate a friendly match from a competative match (although, there is only 2 points difference between mine...)

Practicing the line up or placing balls on the table is purely just practice and isn't a legitimate highest break.

One of the things that spurred me on with my match play was the ability to have had 'total clearences' and high century breaks in practice (136, 126, 122, 120 etc.) but only having a highest 'match' break of 113. I have since increased that to 134... missing the black

Personally, if i called my highest break as something i achieved on my own i would only feel as though i'm cheating myself!!

[RGCirencester]

You seem adamant that everybody else is looking at it from the wrong angle, but seem reluctant to try it yourself.

Alternative you could smash the balls, but again, this is no longer realistic.

The example about a 147 also doesn't hold water over the range of the argument, as this implies you didn't miss a single ball, therefore leaving a ball on after a miss never comes into it.OK so i miss the first red, leave it over the pocket, i can still make a 147 therefore the argument holds

Do you still believe that there is no distinction between playing a game and practice?Yes, when playing freinds i make no distinction.

Because in this situation you are unable to show this level of skill in a match (No doubt due to some of the reasons above)... And by your own admission: "It is a measure of your skill".If your high break in a match is 10, that implies you have little knowledge about the game or ability to put that iknowledge nto practice. whereas your practice high break of say 50 shows people that you have the neccesary ability to use the full range of shots, stun, follow, stun run thru etc.

OK right i would just like to say we all have differing opinions on this, so maybe we should leave it at that. But i think a lot of the arguments being made depend on the view that practice does not count in the first place. I do not feel pressure in a freindly game like some people do so i would not consider any difference to practice in that regard. Also consider the ammount of pressure put on you when actually making a high break. If you consider practice breaks as legitimate breaks then the same pressure is on you in practice as it owuld be in a match. Barring it being a frame winning break, you will be totally focussed on potting that next ball and reaching your goal.

[noel]

My two sense...

High Breaks must be categorized within a what kind of play one's involved in and factored by a difficulty framework.
By "kind" I mean a 147 running the line-up is awesome... however, it is a cueball control and potting drill, and a very good one at that.
Smash the reds apart then replace all the colours on their spots and away you go, is a bit more difficult, especially as table management, the lay of the balls, comes into break-building, however unrealistic. *
Playing in a club tournament against a par opponent with equal caution and bravado is a much more difficult and nervous HB framework...
Any of us at the Crucible in front of millions of viewers playing someone who you know will clean up the table if you miss anything... say, Ronnie... fancy you could run a ton in that circumstance?


=o)

Noel



*

A couple of weeks ago I was in at the local club practising. A stranger came up to me and offered me a friendly game, just one.
I said "sure"... "nice to meet you".
He grabbed a house cue. He offered me a pistachio nut and I offered him the chance to break.
S M A S H !

... the table looked like an evenly decorated Christmas Tree.
"Thank God he didn't pot a red" [ I said to myself ] and approached the table,
with the same sense of awe and wonder a kid does on Christmas morning.
I almost rubbed my eyes in disbelief.

Examining my opportunities like ducks in a row, I started shooting...
........................... rattled a red... 82!

As I strode back to my stool, my opponent jumped to his feet shook my hand, said "Thanks for the show", and walked off.
I had been so intent on going for my High Break I hadn't noticed what he had been doing...
there in my open case ontop of my Mike Wooldridge cue towel was a large pile of possibly
82 empty pistachio shells. True.

[LavaChild]

OK right i would just like to say we all have differing opinions on this, so maybe we should leave it at that. But i think a lot of the arguments being made depend on the view that practice does not count in the first place. I do not feel pressure in a freindly game like some people do so i would not consider any difference to practice in that regard. Also consider the ammount of pressure put on you when actually making a high break. If you consider practice breaks as legitimate breaks then the same pressure is on you in practice as it owuld be in a match. Barring it being a frame winning break, you will be totally focussed on potting that next ball and reaching your goal.

I wont bother to take the time to express myself as clearly as I have tried previously in this thread; It seems obvious that any valid points instantly get ignored.*

I think all that I can say, considering the common viewpoint, is that consider your high break as you will but going against the grain makes any comparisons difficult if not pointless. What's the point in having a high break that is governed only by making you "proud", then I may as well simply put the balls over the pockets and be done with it... Now that's what I'd call naive. If it makes me any prouder than what's the harm? The harm is that it devalues others achievements; Simply speaking they cannot be compared in the same breath.

There are all sorts of examples that support this; Consider many racing drivers... They might pull off a fantastic lap in practise, where there are fewer restrictions on car set-ups, fuels loads, etc. Can they repeat this form on race day (Where each car is more equal in set-up)? And if not, are they a worse driver? It might be unfair to say so, but truly this is the way they are treated. In fact, I really cannot think of many examples where doing something in practise is transferable or equivalent to doing it "for real"... Try going and breaking a Guinness World Record in that way and see where you end up.

In honesty, I think this has a greater effect on people with relatively low breaks, like you and I, because leaving a ball over each pocket allows me to beat my high break... For a player who consistently tops, say, 50 though the benefit they'll get is negligible and certainly a great deal of skill is required, not least to regain the position of the balls.

I started this thread to find if there was any agreement (Albeit unofficial) on what constituted as a high break. Whilst there does seem to be a relatively common vibe it is clear that this is not universal... So if nothing else I've learnt that. I appreciate that some people think there is no point in discussing this but it is certainly interesting and promoting some varied views.

I'd still be interested in hearing others views; After all there is no point in a discussion forum if nothing is actually up for discussion!

*Point in question: You "defend" the 147 suggestion, by inadvertently supporting it... In a real game if you miss then you give the table up to your opponent until they also make a mistake. In practise you simply "continue" from where you are, no doubt with an easier pot. I would certainly agree however that somebody who can clock a 147 is certainly full of skill, and to those people many of these points are less relevant.

[RGCirencester]

I actually meant the opponent misses the first red and i can still make a 147. Its clear we are not going to agree on this. I think it depends on the pressure you put on yourself. I do not find a massive load of pressure playing my mates, so i do not see a difference from practice in my perspective. I also think ther pressure of making a highest break in any setting is comparable to the presure an opponent puts on you. I open the floor to people other than me and lava

P.S. The great Roy is on my side so i win lol

[Strickimicki]

I with all respect, have got to say a high break can or should only be counted when playing against an opponent* who also wants to win!

Shooting balls in practice, line up can be counted with abreviasion to a say Lineup!
Putting balls over the pocket and potting them can not be taken seriously by any means!

Other mentioned practice routines can also be counted with the abreviasion of what ever it was!

If the people here who are knocking in high breaks of around twenty, do yourself a favor and don't count them!

Start counting your own personal HB after you have got over the 40 line!

Be happy with your game when you know you're potting nicely, concentrate on position and cueing!

Chasing high breaks is a foolish thing to do when you hardly know which end of the cue to use! (that's not meant nastily)

If your best compulation of balls adds up to thirty and you have potted 10 reds and 10 yellows, who is going to say, what a sh**ty break

Keep going at them and take everything in your stride, you're only doing it for your self!

wishing you all the best again,

Brian

*this can be yourself, if played with real emotion.