How do you define a journeyman?

[Peter147]

How would you define a journeyman snooker player and what players would you call one? Personally, I would say it is someone who has been around say 15 years or more, who has never got far in the professional game and is unlikely to. I would say someone like Jeff Cundy (he plays on the PIOS tour).

[Matt_2745]

I assume that this is inspired by the debate in the Graeme Dott thread?

[spike]

A sportsman who is reliable but not outstanding!

[ste bed]

i would say a journeyman is someone who as been in the main tour 10 years plus in the rankings 40 to 70 does quite well in the qualifers and get on the tv every now and again. players like jimmy michie,jamie burnett,mathew couch and david roe i think are all good examples very good players but just didnt quite make that last break through to the top elite.

[noel]

A journeyman boxer is defined as a fighter who has little or no expectation of winning his fights, thus he is said to be "along for the journey".
Journeymen will often serve as opponents for young up and coming prospects and will often step in at late notice should a fight fall.


=o)

Noel

[Peter147]

I assume that this is inspired by the debate in the Graeme Dott thread?

Yes, I read that thread and thought I'll start one asking how people define a journeyman. I remember someone started a thread about three months ago saying Mark Selby is an overrated journeyman. In my opinion, 25 is too young to be considered a journeyman, plus he has won a ranking tournament.

[Templeton Peck]

I would say a journeyman is a player that has never won or threatened to win a tournament, and doesn't look like doing so, but is capable of beating the top players. Someone like Michael Holt would be a prime example. I used to think Joe Swail was the best journeyman around but I think by reaching the Welsh Open final he's proven himself to be a bit more than that.

[ste bed]

mark selby's 1 of the best players in the world fact and even saying dott's name is a joke the guys been world champ and runner up plus prov world no 1 the guys just had some serious personal problems over the last few years and is form as dipped but have no doubt the guys world class.

[steedee]

no one top 16 or pushing for the top 16 or with previous experience with such.

rod lawler
adrian gunnell
marcus campbell
mike dunn
jimmy michie
mark davis
joe delaney

all very fair examples of journymen.

david roe was top 16 so not in my opinion, likewise joe swail.

graeme dott is certainly not a journyman

[scottley]

Dave Harold, saying that he may surprise us all and win several World Championship

[mikey2112]

David Taylor(The silver fox) was always described as a journeyman.....someone who was always at the tournaments but never won anything. That's the type of player I think sums up that expression

[steedee]

Dave Harold, saying that he may surprise us all and win several World Championship

Dont say that.....

i shuddered!

i wouldn't say DH is a journyman. he's another thats been in the top 16. i consider that an achievement

[Templeton Peck]

Clearly anyone who has won a tournament is not a journeyman, and Dave Harold is a tournament winner. He proved he still has his mojo by reaching the NIT final this season. I don't consider a top 16 place as criteria for not being one though. If you never challenge for a title, then you're just making up numbers wherever you are in the rankings, and surely that is the defining feature of a journeyman: just making up the numbers.

[1lawyer]

How do you define a journeyman?


A man that travels a lot

[RocketRoy1983]

I think Swail is a prime example of a journeyman templeton.