How do you define a journeyman?

[matoski]

Journeyman snooker player should be a very talented player who doesn't live from snooker but has other sources of income in his life. He plays proffessional snooker just for fun and doesn't put enough practice to become a world class player. He sticks somewhere arround 40-70 place on the tour, gets relegated and comes back........

[Monique]

this is the dictionary definition :

An experienced and competent but undistinguished worker

.

Clearly no player having won any of the majors can be branded "undistinguished". I'd say this definition perfectly describes those players who spend most of their 10-15 years carreer in the 64-32 bracket. No disrespect to them.

[ADR147]

How would you define a journeyman snooker player and what players would you call one? Personally, I would say it is someone who has been around say 15 years or more, who has never got far in the professional game and is unlikely to. I would say someone like Jeff Cundy (he plays on the PIOS tour).

i don't like the term at all. without players playing for teams like morton you can't have wayne rooney.

[poolqjunkie]

Can a journeyman one day become a champion?
And can a champion become a journeyman?
How can you say a person will NEVER become a threat to winning a title?
For a while, when he was really off, Marco Fu looked a journeyman just attaining tournament and getting knocked out very soon, making up the numbers. Few years later, well, he is certainly a threat to anyone getting in his way.
Alan McManus was one of the top guns and then now he can barely win a qualifier. Will you consider him a journeyman now? Certainly no one would a few years back I think.

[noel]

How do you define a journeyman?

A Donkey. *


=o)

Noel


*... Ronnie is a racehorse.

[Mal]

I think Swail is a prime example of a journeyman templeton.

10 semis including 2 world semis, 1 ranking final, top sixteen player over a few seasons spread from mid 90s to potentially next season. Regular quarter finalist over the years-proven bottle in WC deciding frames and consistently gives the bigger names tough games (such as Williams and Higgins have found)

I think the description of those who never get close to a title - perhaps the odd QF and never get in the top 16 - perhaps appearing in top 32 once or twice, but generally languishing below 40 would be how I would describe journeyman - But, boy I wish I was that good.

[Viktortheman]

10 semis including 2 world semis, 1 ranking final, top sixteen player over a few seasons spread from mid 90s to potentially next season. Regular quarter finalist over the years-proven bottle in WC deciding frames and consistently gives the bigger names tough games (such as Williams and Higgins have found)

I think the description of those who never get close to a title - perhaps the odd QF and never get in the top 16 - perhaps appearing in top 32 once or twice, but generally languishing below 40 would be how I would describe journeyman - But, boy I wish I was that good.

yeah, a "journeyman" is still a very good snookerplayer

[rivercard]

rod lawler
adrian gunnell
marcus campbell
mike dunn
jimmy michie
mark davis
joe delaney

I would agree with this list. I'm surprised that there are so many definitions from different members, I would never call Joe Swail or Dave Harold a journeyman.

[Viktortheman]

I would agree with this list. I'm surprised that there are so many definitions from different members, I would never call Joe Swail or Dave Harold a journeyman.

a journeyman could also be a player that never have made a maximum break in competition on the Main Tour

[rivercard]

a journeyman could also be a player that never have made a maximum break in competition on the Main Tour

Well that's an interesting suggestion. But in my definition a journeyman is an established pro for many years who is a very tough match player without any great results (tournament wins, finals, a lot of Crucible appearances). So someone who is on the Tour for 1 or 2 years and then gets relegated is not a journeyman, they are not as good as journeymen (and they usually don't make 147s). Also, making a 147 doesn't necesseraly mean that someone is a level above the journeymen.

[ADR147]

a journeyman could also be a player that never have made a maximum break in competition on the Main Tour

for most of their careers that would have been john higgins and mark williams!

[rivercard]

I think the description of those who never get close to a title - perhaps the odd QF and never get in the top 16 - perhaps appearing in top 32 once or twice, but generally languishing below 40 would be how I would describe journeyman - But, boy I wish I was that good.

Very true, I would be so happy if I were half as talented as Marcus Campbell for example.