Touching Ball Foul

[Hyperonic]

Is it a foul of 4 or 7 if the cue ball failed to hit any ball when the red ball was on while the black ball was the touching ball and wasn't disturbed when the shot was taken ?

Is this logic correct that since black ball was touching ball and the cue ball failed to hit any ball which is a foul and
(g) If more than one foul is committed in the same stroke, the highest value penalty shall be incurred.


What is the interpretation of 'must first hit a ball that is on' in the following rule ?

(d) If the cue-ball comes to rest touching or nearly touching a ball that is not on, the referee, if asked whether it is touching, will answer YES or NO. The striker must play away without disturbing it as above but must first hit a ball that is on.

[glove147]

Foul 4

As long as the Ball NOT ON hasn't been disturbed

[davis_greatest]

What is the interpretation of 'must first hit a ball that is on' in the following rule ?

(d) If the cue-ball comes to rest touching or nearly touching a ball that is not on, the referee, if asked whether it is touching, will answer YES or NO. The striker must play away without disturbing it as above but must first hit a ball that is on.

It means that a stroke must be played and the first ball that the white should contact must be a ball on, as is always the case - with the proviso that if the cue-ball had been played from a position where it had been touching a ball not on, then for the purpose of that stroke it does not count as though contact were made with that ball not on, provided that ball not on is not disturbed during the stroke.

[DawRef]

Hopefully the following scenarios will help clear this up:
(i)You have just potted a red and the cue-ball has ended up touching the black ball. Because the black is now a ball on, the referee will call "touching ball", point to the black and ask you to nominate your colour. You can nominate any of the six colours as your next shot, not necessarily the black. But you must nominate.
(ii) As above but this time the cue-ball is about a mm from the black. This time, the referee will not say anything. He will check to see if the balls are touching. If you ask the referee, he has to tell you if they are touching or not. You still need to nominate your colour though. You can nominate the black, but be careful that you don't do a 'push stroke'.
(iii)This time, you do not pot a red, but the cue ball ends up touching the black. Again the referee will check, but not say anything, unless asked. Red is still the ball on. You must still play away from the black and hit a red.
(iv)This time, you do not pot a red, but the cue ball ends up nearly touching the black. Again the referee will check, but not say anything, unless asked. Red is still the ball on. You must play for the red. If the cue ball moves the black, it will be a foul.


If you are at a match where a referee or, preferably, an Examiner is present, he will gladly explain this on the table.

[The Statman]

Is it a foul of 4 or 7 if the cue ball failed to hit any ball when the red ball was on while the black ball was the touching ball and wasn't disturbed when the shot was taken ?

Is this logic correct that since black ball was touching ball and the cue ball failed to hit any ball which is a foul and
(g) If more than one foul is committed in the same stroke, the highest value penalty shall be incurred.


What is the interpretation of 'must first hit a ball that is on' in the following rule ?

(d) If the cue-ball comes to rest touching or nearly touching a ball that is not on, the referee, if asked whether it is touching, will answer YES or NO. The striker must play away without disturbing it as above but must first hit a ball that is on.

It is important to note here that the situation you describe is not a touching ball situation.

The Touching Ball rule specifically concerns itself only with situations where the cue-ball is touching a ball on (or a potential ball on if the player is on a choice of colour).

[Hyperonic]

Again in our local snooker club this scenario happened.

The cue ball came to rest touching the blue ball and the next player, in his turn, came to play the red ball, which was the ball on. The striker in his stroke didn't move the blue ball but failed to hit the red ball. Everyone in the club was saying that it was a foul of 5 points. How can it be known from the official snooker rules that the foul is of 4 points and not 5 ?

[DawRef]

It is a foul of 4 points. The ball on is a red. Therefore, unless the blue moved, then the player failed to hit the ball on, in this case the red and it is a foul four.

[Hyperonic]

It is a foul of 4 points. The ball on is a red. Therefore, unless the blue moved, then the player failed to hit the ball on, in this case the red and it is a foul four.

I'm going to take print of the rules of snooker from worldsnooker.com and will show them. But I cannot find something in the rules which shows that it is a foul of 4 and not 5, given that the blue ball is not moved.

[jrc750]

I'm going to take print of the rules of snooker from worldsnooker.com and will show them. But I cannot find something in the rules which shows that it is a foul of 4 and not 5, given that the blue ball is not moved.

Why do your friends think it was a foul of 5 ? as already said the red ball was on, and that was not hit, so it is a foul of only 4 (obviously if the blue moved then it would be 5)

[Hyperonic]

Why do your friends think it was a foul of 5 ? as already said the red ball was on, and that was not hit, so it is a foul of only 4 (obviously if the blue moved then it would be 5)

Maybe they think that it is similar to when playing a color ball and blue ball is the touching ball. After nominating the blue ball, when you send the cue ball away from it, the ball played is the blue ball.
Therefore, they think that the blue ball was played if the cue ball failed to hit the red ball and so, a foul of 5 points. And if the cue ball had hit the red ball, then the red ball would be the ball played and hence no foul !

[DawRef]

But I cannot find something in the rules which shows that it is a foul of 4 and not 5, given that the blue ball is not moved.

Opening sentance of Section 3 Rule 14:

'The striker shall, to the best of his ability, endeavour to hit the ball on.

and

Section 3 Rule 8(d):
If the cue-ball comes to rest touching or nearly touching a ball that is not on, the referee, if asked if it is touching, will answer YES or No. The striker must play away without disturbing it as above but must first hit a ball that is on.

Therefore, my first answer says for failing to hit the ball on (a red) the foul is 4 points. My second answer shows that as long as the ball not on doesn't move (read Section 3 Rule 8 (f) as well) , in your case the blue, then it will not be a foul of 5 as the blue wasn't fouled whilst the player played his stroke.