Screw Back

[Jay1]

I've been playing now for a couple of months, although I played a little bit several years ago when I was in my teens.

I think I am getting better and that is shown by last night getting my highest break since starting playing again (26 with a black a Pink a Brown and a Blue, with reds) I play most shots plain ball or with a bit of stun but occasionally will try and get a bit more on the cue ball.

I seem ok at putting top on (although I have misscued a couple of times with my new cue, perhaps gonna change the tip) I get the cue ball to follow through fairly nicely. I can also get quite a lot of side (not always intentional ) but I only use it for safety really.

The thing I seem to struggle with is bringing the cue ball back. I can get a bit of action on it but need to give it a pretty good belt to do so. The 2 guys I play with most are way better at getting backspin than me, although we are all very evenly matched in ability, judging by results agains each other.

Any suggestions as to why I should struggle with backspin?

[RaNeN]

When you want to screwback lower your bridge hit the ball to the bottom as much as you can. It usually depends on follow through.While trying a screwback remember to play and follow the cue. You could see this on the BBC website.

Maybe Dave will be of more help(reverse_side).

[Robert602]

Yeah a lot of newish players do seem a bit too wary of hitting the ball as low as is necessary to get decent backspin, but I personally think how the ball is hit is more important than where. An experienced carpenter can knock a 9 inch nail into a block of wood with a single stroke of the hammer, without putting any effort in, where a novice might have to jab at it 20 times. It's all about the speed and acceleration of the hammer (or cue) at the point of contact, it's known as timing. A golfer, cricketer or tennis player would tell you the same thing.

How well you can put backspin on the ball is the number one indicator for how well you're timing your shots. In practise that's helped by having a flowing, relaxed stroke, plenty of backswing, and following through the white as if it wasn't there. Joe Swail gets extra cue power from putting a lot of wrist into the shot, so he's able to accelerate the cue through the white to a greater extent than most pros. Textbooks don't recommend that though as it supposedly reduces accuracy, but I find a wristy cue action useful for those soft screw shots.

I used to have the same problem and I found that my timing improved dramatically as I simply got used to the table and became more confident and relaxed about playing my shots. When I used to try too hard to bring the ball back, I found my grip tightened, my arm tensed up and I just punched the cue through hard, the white stopped dead. Try to avoid that if it sounds familar.

If you've got any videos or can wait until the new season starts, watch out for these:
Smooth, textbook cueing: Hendry, Murphy, Lee.
Unorthodox good timing: O'Sullivan, White, Swail
How not to cue: Dott, Harold, Wattana, Fu.

[RaNeN]

How not to cue: Dott, Harold, Wattana, Fu.

LOL
I like Ronnie's the best!

[reverse_side]

Hi Jay, the holy grail of a snooker player eh!

Ranen's right about your bridge, lowering can help; the height of my V isn't that high to begin with so that's not an issue. As for aiming, have a look at this from Frank Callan's website.



http://www.fcsnooker.co.uk/intermediate/screw/screw.htm





Maybe you can see that desperately trying to catch the very bottom of the cue ball isn't as important as.... the "timing" you use when stroking the white.

It's amazing how much screw you can put on a white with hardly any pace on the ball. Imagine one of the hula hoops you fizzed out in front of you, it scoots along with a few bounces, bounces on the spot then races back towards you. It's similar to that. Another visualisation is to think of sitting with a bowling ball on the varnished wood. Trying to impart either top or bottom spin on that 10-16 pounder would be inconceivable, unless you had a really grippy finger and could encourage it to spin rather than to propel it forward.

It's the same with a white and your tip, you need a tip that grips, an idea what putting screw on the white really means and to remove the thought that hitting hard will put more spin on the white.

You need to get the white revolving and the "timing" buzz word is simply the ability to make contact with the white and be speeding up as you stroke through it. This way the white doesn't simply bounce off the tip with a small amount of backspin which (if the object ball's near) turns into a stun shot or at best, a feeble dribble back to you.

When the great Clive Everton says you should be, "accelerating through the shot", the reason for this is that if you "hit" the white, then it'll only have the minimum of spin (top, bottom, left or whatever), but if you manage to
keep the tip in contact with the white for FRACTIONALLY longer, the amount of force applied (dusting off Newton's 2nd!) will be proportionally more.

So, if we can keep the tip in contact (the force) with the white for as long as possible, then it will accelerate in an angular fashion (the backspin) until the white is released and your follow-through is complete.

Now we have a white being propelled with as much backspin as possible and as soon as it hits the object ball, it grips the cloth and flies backwards.

The mistakes you can make that'll harm being able to create screw are....

• Hitting down on the white from having your cue jacked up too far; it'll just bang the white into the cloth that'll reduce the backswpin you're trying to create.
• Punching the white; a shot lacking follow-through, imparting too much pace and lacking spin.
• Expecting a pro reaction on heavy cloths.
• Expecting a decent screwback on long shots.

There's a test for a technique that involves screwing the white off a shot that the aim is to bring the white back to the baulk cushion before the ball you've just played hits the far cushion. It's a great test of your (growing_ ability to impart spin on the white but without crashing it into the object ball with tons of pace.

Another advantage of mastering screw shots with low pace, is that around the black, it's FAR easier to control the white if you're not needing to move the balls too much or hit them as hard.

I hope these thoughts make sense, if not, maybe I'll use some golfing anologies!

..... hey, why not do that now.... if a golfer wants to find his own personal holy grail of backspin on a golf shot, it's similar to a snooker shot in that the instant the club and ball are in contact, if the club is accelerating through the hitting area at a speed that matches the acceleration off the face, then the ball with begin to spin, then still be in contact with the club so it spins more because it's gripped onto the clubface.... proportional acceleration in an angular fashion comes into the equation again.

I wanted the URL of the BBC's Slo-Mo camera to show a few things; if anyone's got it, pass it on... it seems to have dropped off the "Video&Audio" section of the Snooker part of their site.

Just googled on the drill you could try... but no good. I'd guess it'd be along the lines of.... put the white as close to the baulk cushion but keeping it in the D, the brown on it's spot and attempt to screw the white back to the baulk cushion before the brown does.

I'll not have a chance to try this out to see if it's the baulk cushion or the black (top) cushion, but the essential idea is to fully commit to the shot by following through with the thought that the white should start spinning and the amount of spin will increase because you've not "quit" on the shot or punched it.

Maybe try some pots into a middle pocket with a suply of balls ready to replace the one of the blue spot. Pick a distance of about the length of your forearm and see how much backspin you can get with the least amount of effort. You'll eventually manage to pot both without much of a noise of the object ball hitting the back of the pocket.

LASTLY! I'd say you're right to change the tip, or at least rough it up with a bit of sandpaper to give it a chance of some new life. You're already at the stage of knowing what it's like not to have enough "feel on the shot".... once you get some grip on the tip and are confident of the mechanics of a screw shot, you'll know and learn what did or didn't happen on each shot. It's the same logic for any spin shot, but backspin's always a benchmark on your learning curve. Watch other players that can get backspin and notice their follow-through and try and feel what they're doing. TV recordings of Pro's might help, Ronnie's about the best at these low speed spin shots; his timing is exceptional and can play some shots amateurs wouldn't like at all. A 3/4 pot where you really don't want to "lose the white" and want it to draw back slightly will become a reality once you master this technique.



...... I'll be very interested on your feedback to see if this has helped!

[Jay1]

Nice one thanks guys for the responses, and another great post reverse side. I've been reading the site a lot since I came accross it and the depth of your replies is fantastic. I've learnt a lot since i've been here.

I think the thing that has really struck me about the responses is the emphasis of timing and not "hitting" the cue ball. That is certainly something I am guilty of as I do tend to hit the ball harder than I feel I need to when I'm trying to screw back.

The golfing comparrison is a nice one reverse. I play a lot of golf and as a single figure player can safely say my golf is better than my snooker. I know how a good swing feels and when I'm playing well everything is relaxed and easy, with no "hit" at the ball. I'll try and take this feeling onto the table when I play next and see how I get on.

Thanks again.
Jon

[reverse_side]

Jay, good to hear another area of your life will help your snooker, many contact sports rely on precision hits that without a framework of knowledge WHY these things are important, fail to have a big enough impact. Your golfing prowess is legendary in the snooker world... in that many snooker players are excellent golfers too (Henders is the best I believe, single figure at his local course; Gleneagles!). Bruce Lee's "one inch punch" has a lot of hidden technique that proves many things.

In golf, there's many transitions your body makes to deliver a flat clubface travelling on a desired plane before, during and after the impact, so it's similar to the triking of a deadball cue. Every great shot you play must feel that your whole body's working in harmony, every relevant muscle's helping and none are over compensating so you're extracting the most power from the strength you have. (90% efficiency from everyone is better than 100% from just one person in a business type of thing).

You'll get to a stage when sweet hits at snooker feel like your great golf shots and that will spur you on to know what you did right... nothing more difficult for someone that hasn't got another sporting experience to draw on. The buzz from an excellent shot will tell you that you're in "good touch" and you can concentrate less on technique and more on shot selection, angle judgement, positional play and retaining your mental strengths... it'll feel like you're in the "zone" and less becomes more. Less effort but a more focussed approach will take you to higher levels.

All thees things you'll already be aware of in your excellent golfing standard, but just getting a foothold on thinking you can use your innate golfing talent on the snooker table will fill many holes in your confidence.

There'll be many members&guests taking some inspiration on any improvements you make... I'll look forward to updating youe high break entry.

(Hey Rob; if only there was a forum warning, "a reply to this thread has been made while you've been writing yours", good that there's a lot of overlap in our replies, just wish I'd''ve seen yours so I could agree a bit more with it in mine.... wudda made mine longer tho! Same for you Ranen, didn't see yours either - agree bout ronnie though; more fluent and natural than anyone else. Why d'you think Ronnie's is unorth Rob?)

[Jay1]

Thanks again reverse. I really think these posts will help. I had never associated golf with snooker before as the actions are so different and the focus points for your eyes etc.

But now thinking about it, the actual feeling of the stroke/swing is farily similar. A steady backswing, smooth transition from backswing to through swing, steady acceleration through the ball (no hitting from the top) and then into a full follow through.

I'm popping dow to a local club to work at lunch time for a frame or 2 against my boss and I'll deffinately be taking these thoughts with me.

[cueman]

Also just like to add that the tip can play a large part in how much screw you can get on the cue ball. If the tip is hard it will tend to skid on the white and not get the necessary grip on the white to make it come back. You mentioned a new cue and that will also take time to get used to, I would put a new tip on though. Brand new cues, regardless of who or where from, tend to have poor quality tips fitted, so it will definitely be worthwhile putting a new one on.