Free Ball Or Not....

[herewegoloobyloo]

Hi gents, last night whilst breaking off I managed to miss all the reds (and all the colours too) and leave the white back in balk. My elderly opponent immediately cried `free ball` and i told him that it wasn`t as the pack of 15 reds were classed as 1 ball and he could hit both sides of the pack. Was I correct? (He took a free ball anyway) thanks in anticipation.....

[shadow]

you are correct if reds blocked the edge of "outside" red.however.......someone said to me once that the rules state that a frame commences once the pack of reds are broken.!!!!!as the frame had not started you cannot give points away!was he being clever or is he correct?who has a copy of the rules?

[herewegoloobyloo]

I am sure that if you you miss all the reds from break off it is a foul.I think your comment referes to pool?

[Krypton]

1:

Hi gents, last night whilst breaking off I managed to miss all the reds (and all the colours too) and leave the white back in balk. My elderly opponent immediately cried `free ball` and i told him that it wasn`t as the pack of 15 reds were classed as 1 ball and he could hit both sides of the pack. Was I correct? (He took a free ball anyway) thanks in anticipation.....

wrong but quasi-right!

2:

you are correct if reds blocked the edge of "outside" red.however.......someone said to me once that the rules state that a frame commences once the pack of reds are broken.!!!!!as the frame had not started you cannot give points away!was he being clever or is he correct?who has a copy of the rules?

wrong!

3:

I am sure that if you you miss all the reds from break off it is a foul.I think your comment referes to pool?

dunno...



explanation:
1) the result is correct: there is no free ball, but the theory is not. you get a free ball when you are SNOOKERED, and SNOOKERED means that any ball that is or could be on is covered by a ball not on in a way that you cannot hit both extreme edges of it.

in the scenario given, the utter most red is not covered by a ball that is not on (a colour), but by another ball on (another red). therefore, you are not snookered -> no free ball. end of discussion.

the idea of "all the reds are looked as one" is nonsense. imagine the pack of reds and remove all balls but 5 in the outer row from pink to either corner pocket (remove the 10 ball pyramid behind them). place the cue ball next to the blue. the "pack of five" reds can not be hit at the pinkt end, but you are not snookered anyway, as the red at the end of the line, closest to the pocket, is not covered by a ball not on.
(maybe you did not mean to get a free ball then, but the I got your idea of "look at packs of reds as if they were one" wrong, which is a 'bad' rule as i think. if you want to have a saying/shortcut/whatsoever as a handy rule, use this:
imagine i'd remove all reds except ONE and look if i was snookered on it. do this for ALL reds respectively. if you can find at least one red on the table you are not snookered on (meaning that it may be partially covered by other reds, but not colours), then there's no snooker, no free ball.

2:
a frame starts when the cue ball is hit with the tip (a stroke has been played). so, FOUL, 4 away, if nothing's hit

3:
dunno the pool rules

[herewegoloobyloo]

awsome, many thanks.........

[Krypton]

You're always welcome, cheers!

[The Statman]

Indeed, you were correct in saying it wasn't a free ball (probably, depending on the exact location of the cue-ball when it stopped) but the logic you used in getting there was wrong.

The pack of reds are not considered to be a 'single red'; rather, each red is considered separately.

This means that, for each red on the table, you assess the free ball pretending that it is the only red on the table.

If ALL of those result in a YES to a free ball, then it is. If ANY ONE of the reds come back as a NO to a free ball, then it isn't.

My article Free Ball – how to judge if you have one may help you.

Also my follow-up article Free ball – what you can and can't do with it looks at other queries concerning this rule.

[Krypton]

Happy to hear the same thing twice...