Light White!

[Cossie]

I played a league match on Thursday night, it was an away fixture so the other club provide match balls for the fixture. Our team lost every game and during the game every one of our players complained about the white it jumped everytime it hit the object ball and stopped when you put topspin on. Anyway after the match the point arose what is the regulation weight of a match white ball. anyone know?

[MasterBreak147]

Should... state in your handbook, alot of leagues/clubs use super crystalate snooker balls and i find those light compared to the belgian aramith tournament balls

[Terry Davidson]

Most Aramith match balls are in the range of 141gms however their own standard is across a set of balls there can't be more than 3gms variance so you could end up with a cueball slightly heavier or lighter than 141gms.

Super Crystalate are owned by Aramith and I notice they still make the balls but since almost everyone is using Aramith these days perhaps your league might want to change their standard over. I recently played with a set of 18yr-old super crystalate balls and the cueball was about 1/8" small and probably 25gms light. No follow-through but the screw was impressive.

Our association has 8 sets of balls and all the cueballs are in a range of 141.2gms to 141.7gms and all are Aramith Tournament balls (I think they're called 'Pro Cup' but anyway they come in the blue box

Terry

[bongo]

The official rules don't state a weight which the balls must be but it does say that the weight should be equal with a tolerance of 3grams per set. So, in theory, you could play with a set of balls weighing a tonne each!

If the cue-ball is light, it may well be slightly smaller. The reason for this is that through a lot of use, the abrasive nature of the chalk on our cue tips can wear down the cue-ball slightly over a number of years. You don't have much control of what happens at other clubs. All you can do is adapt to it.

You can get the yellow, green (probably least used balls on the table) and cue-ball and gather then together touching the cushion and all in a line touching each other with the white in the middle and just lay your cue across the top of the three balls and you can see if there is a small/light white if there is a gap between the top of the white and your cue (normally only a millimetre). There was a small and light white in almost all of the sets at my old club. Advanced players would know if the cue-ball is light without even trying this test. There is a tolerance with the size of +/- 0.05mm, but that doesn't necessarily mean you have to go through all the sets in the clubs to find the correct set of balls with the correct weight tolerances!

2. Balls

The balls shall be of an approved composition and shall each have a diameter of 52.5mm with a tolerance of +/- 0.05mm and:
(a) they shall be of equal weight within a tolerance of 3g per set
(b) a ball or set of balls may be changed by agreement between the players or on a decision by the referee.

[sunny3909]

I have played with both of them.
There is a lot of difference in weight and size of these balls.
Aramith tournament champion balls are bigger in size and are heavier compared to super crystalate.
I think tournament champion are much better then crystalate as you get more control on them.

[bongo]

Should... state in your handbook, alot of leagues/clubs use super crystalate snooker balls and i find those light compared to the belgian aramith tournament balls

In the handbook of the league in which I played in last year it says: "All games are to be played with Crystolate or Super Crystolate balls".

Apart from Crystalate being spelt wrong in the handbook, I am very surprised that they didn't even include Tournament Champion balls as these were the set we used in every game and every other team always used them as well.

[bkpaul]

The reason no actual weight is given for a ball in the World Rules is because so many different specifications exist (different sets) and it would force clubs to change all their balls that then don't meet the weight spec, hence setting a tollerance of +/-3g is the best they can really do.

Of course as Bongo states the size is given and as such a white that has been used for many years may well have worn down a little and as such will not be within spec, this should therefore be replaced.

In local leagues the league has suprisingly little control over the equipment and conditions at clubs, it is seen as taboo to come down heavy on them and state they must spend money to correct problems, I personally will always disagree with this viewpoint for numerous reasons and the primary one is do players want to play with sub standard equipment? the answer usually is no so they play elsewhere or practice elsewhere and only play in the club on match night, this of cause then reduces the take in the club.

Bottom line, good equipment means on the whole more people will play, the more people that play the better the take, the better the take the more profitable it is for a club to have a snooker table....

Also the more people that play the longer the queue is to play (especially in clubs where there are only one or 2 tables) thus people waiting either drink more or play the bandits... again more take for the club.

Bottom line therefore is a £5 white may cost the club £200... £300...£400....in lost revenue

Its not rocket science!

[MasterBreak147]

I agree with most of your post bkpaul but surly a £5 belgian aramith tournament champion snooker ball white used with a set of super crystalate snooker balls or visa versa will react strange?

[bkpaul]

Sorry I did mean to say get a white that is of the same make, I took it the reader would have assumed this but obviosuly I should have made that clear.

thanks

[cantpotforshíte]

hiya Cossie .. I have had the same problem with some teams in my local league. We had a good rant about it on here a few weeks ago ... here's the link to the thread:
http://www.thesnookerforum.com/board...ad.php?t=19303

Somewhere in your league handbook it should say what rules your games are to be played in accordance with. You can get a copy of these rules and a cheap set of digital scales off ebay (you can get them for a tenner that are accurate to within a gram if you haven't already got some). Armed with these you can take your proper weight cueball with you to your next away fixture at the guilty club, then they can't argue when you swap the white.

There's nothing worse that a light white. You'll probably find that the object balls that they are using weigh 141-142 grams, and the white ball will weigh about 124 grams. As umbongo has already mentioned, the tolerance stated within the rules will be within 3 grammes per set.
I can't agree that it's due to wear and tear.. it's just that when the clubs replace the white ball (because it gets more scratches on it than the other balls) they get the wrong one.
Good luck with this

[bongo]

Bottom line therefore is a £5 white may cost the club £200... £300...£400....in lost revenue

How does that work? Please explain...

[bkpaul]

Simple really, if the players in your team don't come in to practice then they don't spend at the bar.

Players not in the team won't want to play with sub standard equipment so they don't come in to play.

all those that don't come in to play therefore soon mount up.

Prime example, a club not too far from me had a light white and I was told by the steward after he replaced the white and people got to know the otherwise hardly used table became very well used and as a result his takings shot up (ok so they were using what was probably a pool white or at least it seemed like one!) so you couldn't play a decent frame with it...

but boy were those screw shots something to behold!....

[Rane]

I have played with both of them.
There is a lot of difference in weight and size of these balls.
Aramith tournament champion balls are bigger in size and are heavier compared to super crystalate.
I think tournament champion are much better then crystalate as you get more control on them.

I have precisely the same experience. In my club the crystalate balls are given to players coming in from the street. The club players use the others, as they are much better.

[Rane]

The colours are slightly paler on the crystallate balls as well, so if you are wondering why the balls look pale, it probably isn´t tournament balls.

[cantpotforshíte]

Playing with an entire set of Crystallate balls wouldn't be so bad. The problem is when (as happens quite frequently) all the coloured balls are Aramith Tournament Champion and the white ball has been replaced with a lighter Crystallate. That's when cueball control becomes a lottery and even a pro would do well to make a break of 30.
A snooker centre near me that opened about 3 years ago had 12 new tables and 12 brand new sets of ATC (aramith tournament champion 142 gram) balls. Aramith at the time however were supplying those cue balls with the red dots on that were supposed to be making their way onto the pro circuit.
The management in the club didn't like the spotty whites, so they told their supplier who promptly supplied them with 12 plain white balls that were 124 grams and not 142 grams. So the balls don't match in any one set. They still haven't sorted the problem out.
This is a very common problem and needs addressing.