impossible snooker

[peter.waterfall]

can anyone confirm the correct ruling in this situation.

we play in a league where the miss rule is not in force

potting a red the white managed to force itself into the pack of reds leaving no shot possible to hit a colour.

the opposition insisted there was a rule that said in the case of an "impossibe" snooker it was a re-rack (i think this was because they were behind in the frame). are they correct or how should this be resolved?

peter waterfall

[missneworleans]

if shot on the colour is really impossible than its just no miss rule on this shot

[The Statman]

If it is impossible, then you have to foul! You must still go through the theoretical motions of nominating and 'playing for' a colour.

If the Miss Rule is being used, then you must play as if going for the stated colour pretending that the reds were not in the way – otherwise a Miss can still be called. Essentially, you have to pretend to go for the colour.

However, if the Miss Rule is not being used in the tournament you are playing, then it will just simply be a foul for failing to hit the chosen colour. (The choice of colour might of course affect the penalty, i.e. if he nominated pink it would be 6 away.)

The next player then plays with the normal options he has after the foul.

Any suggestion of a re-rack is complete nonsense.

[missneworleans]

i thought that if it's impossible to get out of snooker miss won't be called

[The Statman]

i thought that if it's impossible to get out of snooker miss won't be called

No, it still can be.

Imagine if the white lands tightly in the pack of reds, and you nominate yellow. That can still be called a miss if you play towards the yellow, because the pink is in the way – so if the snooker had not been impossible, you still wouldn't have hit the yellow.

The exact rule requires you to play in the right direction with enough strength to reach the ball, had it not been an impossible snooker – that way, no Miss can be called.

It holds the general principle that a player must make his best effort to hit the ball on. The player may not just tap the cue-ball and get away with it being classed as a fair attempt.

(It could equally be a red that is on, with the cue-ball surrounded by a couple of colours.)

[DawRef]

The exact rule requires you to play in the right direction with enough strength to reach the ball

I thought the rule stated 'directly' or 'indirectly'. e.g. If you nominated Yellow (assuming it is on its spot) and decided that you would disturb less reds by going off of the top cushion first, then as long as you hit the cue-ball hard enough, in the opinion of the referee, then only a 'foul' would be called.

[missneworleans]

No, it still can be.

Imagine if the white lands tightly in the pack of reds, and you nominate yellow. That can still be called a miss if you play towards the yellow, because the pink is in the way – so if the snooker had not been impossible, you still wouldn't have hit the yellow.

The exact rule requires you to play in the right direction with enough strength to reach the ball, had it not been an impossible snooker – that way, no Miss can be called.

It holds the general principle that a player must make his best effort to hit the ball on. The player may not just tap the cue-ball and get away with it being classed as a fair attempt.

(It could equally be a red that is on, with the cue-ball surrounded by a couple of colours.)

Well in this situation yes
But imagine cue ball is in the jaws of the pocket and two reds cover him so you can't hit any balls at all apart from those two reds
What will be if that happens?

[DawRef]

The rule still stands. You MUST make an attempt to hit the ball on. What you cannot do, is just tap the cue-ball back into the pocket. If you do that, the referee will (and should) call Foul and a Miss.
So, you nominate your colour and hit the cue-ball with enough force, so that if the reds weren't there, you would hit the nominated ball.
This is covered in the opening paragraph of Section 3 Rule 14, which covers the Foul and Miss rule.

[missneworleans]

The rule still stands. You MUST make an attempt to hit the ball on. What you cannot do, is just tap the cue-ball back into the pocket. If you do that, the referee will (and should) call Foul and a Miss.
So, you nominate your colour and hit the cue-ball with enough force, so that if the reds weren't there, you would hit the nominated ball.
This is covered in the opening paragraph of Section 3 Rule 14, which covers the Foul and Miss rule.

this explains things

[The Statman]

I thought the rule stated 'directly' or 'indirectly'. e.g. If you nominated Yellow (assuming it is on its spot) and decided that you would disturb less reds by going off of the top cushion first, then as long as you hit the cue-ball hard enough, in the opinion of the referee, then only a 'foul' would be called.

Yes it does say 'indirectly', I was being oversimplistic for the purposes of answering the original question.

I guess the 'directly or indirectly' bit covers a scenario where the only route out of the 'impossible' cluster is a direction where even then the ball on could not be hit. An example that springs to mind is the cue-ball angled in the jaw of a pocket, with two colours right in front; the remaining red is along the side cushion so that, even if the colours were not in the way, the jaw would be. You would then have to play 'indirectly'. To play in the direction of the red would mean, if the colours were not there, that you would just be aiming for the jaw of the pocket.