Questions Related to Miss Rule

[Hyperonic]

Will it be called miss if the striker

1). can directly hit a ball on but miscue occurs

2). fails to hit a ball on in a direct path, when trying to pot it with very thin cut

3). after potting a red, cue ball is in the black ball area and touching another red. Playing for one of the yellow or brown located on their spot is easier than playing for black because of awkward cueing.

4). tries to pot a ball on located near the center pocket, which can be directly hit but cannot be potted this way. So the striker sends the cue ball to the top cushion and back comes the cue ball but misses the ball on.

5). Either player requires snooker but no part of the ball on can be directly hit. will it be called miss if the stryker fails to hit it ?

[Templeton Peck]

1) Yes.
2) Yes.
3) Up to the ref's discretion.
4) Yes.
5) No. (Misses won't be called in the above scenarios either if snookers are required or leave the striker needing snookers).

[Hyperonic]

(b) If the striker, in making a stroke, fails to first hit a ball on when there is a clear path in a straight line from the cue-ball to any part of any ball that is or could be on, the referee shall call FOUL AND A MISS unless either player needed snookers before, or as a result of, the stroke played and the referee is satisfied that the miss was not intentional.


what if there is NOT a clear path in a straight line from the cue-ball to any part of any ball that is or could be on and either player needed snookers before, or as a result of, the stroke played ?

[Hyperonic]

Q. If I am needing snookers to win, and my opponent snookers me, how many times can he make me retake the shot, given that I already need snookers myself?

A. Contrary to popular belief, there is no rule that prevents a miss being called if a player is snookered regardless of the score. The miss is at the discretion of the referee. However the normal interpretation is that a miss will not be called if either player requires snookers before or after the shot.



http://www.jesterssnooker.co.uk/snooker/ask_the_ref.php

[King T]

According to the following:
" However the normal interpretation is that a miss will not be called if either player requires snookers before or after the shot. "

Meaning if player A has 30 points, player B has 60 points and yellow to black are on the table. If player A snookers player B hoping that player B misses, then player A would clear the table, if B fails to hit the yellow, the referee would NOT call a miss because either player requires a snooker?????!!!! I guess I am interpreting something seriously wrong here...

Also once someone mentioned to me that a miss could only be called 4 times, after the 4th attempt (failing) the referee would give the floor to the other player with a (ball in hand). While we there are many cases where the striker attempts the shot more than 4 times (Sullivan vs Higgins, Sullivan Vs X. Guodong China Open 09). So is there a certain condition for that or the whole 4 thing rule is wrong and a miss would be called even after 10 "not good enough" attempts?

[poolqjunkie]

Miscue is not a "miss" from what I understand.

If you go off the top cushion trying to make the red in the middle pocket, it is a "miss."

If you have an easier color but opt to go for a more difficult color and miss, it is a "miss."

If you can see a red, but miss when trying to hit it very thin, it is an automatic "miss." If you miss it three times you will lose the frame.

But foul and a miss is usually only enforced when the two players are both at a decent level. The idea to call a miss is based on the belief that the striker did not make his/her best effort to hit the ball on. If the ref decides that a snooker is too difficult for the striker to make contact with(either due to limited skill level or the degree of difficulty of the snooker) and he believes that the striker has given his best effort, a "miss" will not be called even when the striker misses.

Even if you are surrounded by reds and have no path to hit any color, you still need to hit the cue ball hard enough so that you could have hit a color if the reds were not there, failure to do so is also a "miss." It is up to the discretion of the ref to decide what is considered "hard enough."

[King T]

And the "foul and a miss rule" is not concerned any way by the players points and whether either player needs a snooker or not, correct?

[poolqjunkie]

And the "foul and a miss rule" is not concerned any way by the players points and whether either player needs a snooker or not, correct?

From what I understand, if a player needs snooker to win then "miss" will not be called.

If you are down 20 points with only pink and black left and your opponent misses--because you needed a snooker to win, you cannot have the cue ball replaced to make him try to negotiate the same snooker again. You will get 6 points from the foul, which put you down 14 points with 13 points on the table but you still need to lay another snooker and clear the table to win.

If you are down 29 points with only the colors left, you cannot call foul and a miss on one snooker more than once as stated before. So, if your opponent fouls on the yellow, you will get 4 points for the foul and no "miss" will be called. Now, you are only down 25 points, with 27 on. If you play another snooker and your opponent now misses again, because no one needs snooker to win--a foul and a miss can be called, and you may have the cue ball replaced.

[King T]

Thank you poolqjunkie,

I am sorry but I still haven't got your point 100%. If I need one snooker only, and I make this snooker, my opponent misses, that's it? I will get the points and the cue ball will not be replaced? And if I DON'T need a snooker, yet a snooker my opponent, the cue ball will be replaced as long as his misses? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Since I have the upper hand in the match, I wouldn't need snookers.

Also, I remember a match when both players were 0-0, it was the start of the frame, Maguire got snookered behind one of the colors (yellow\green\brown), the referee put the cueball back again and again till maguire hit a red. Is that situation different? Neither players needed snookers.

[Hyperonic]

Not related to miss rule.

Red is the ball on. Will it be a foul of 4 or 6 if the cue ball goes to touch the pink but before it touches the pink the striker has accidenlty disturbed yellow with his hand ?

[Terry Davidson]

hyperonic:

If hand touched yellow that is an immediate foul and the hitting of the pink will not count in this stroke unless the pink leaves the table.

king:

A miss is never called if either player requires a snooker BEFORE OR AS A RESULT OF THE STROKE. I don't see what is so hard to understand in this.

Also, the '3 strikes and you are out rule' ONLY applies if the player can hit an object ball in a straight line and he must be able to hit it centre-ball, otherwise it's only a normal miss and the frame is not awarded after 3 misses.

There are 2 distinct parts to the miss rule and do not confuse the 2 parts. They are separate interpretations

Terry

[poolqjunkie]

Yes, Terry, thanks for pointing that out. I stand corrected.

[RGCirencester]

Thank you poolqjunkie,

I am sorry but I still haven't got your point 100%. If I need one snooker only, and I make this snooker, my opponent misses, that's it? I will get the points and the cue ball will not be replaced? And if I DON'T need a snooker, yet a snooker my opponent, the cue ball will be replaced as long as his misses? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Since I have the upper hand in the match, I wouldn't need snookers.

Also, I remember a match when both players were 0-0, it was the start of the frame, Maguire got snookered behind one of the colors (yellow\green\brown), the referee put the cueball back again and again till maguire hit a red. Is that situation different? Neither players needed snookers.

As i have always understood it misses will only be called when snookers are not required. For instance your situation where the scores are level would be called a miss.
When a player requires snookers and gets one it is fair to assume that the other player has in fact tried his hardest to hit the ball on (so he will still be ahead). So generally miss isn't called.
The part i am unclear about is whether the rules specifically prevent the ref from calling a miss in there circumstances. For instance if the player obviously makes no attempt to hit the ball, he would be warned by the referee about fair play, however i am not sure if he is in his rights to replace the balls in there circumstances.
Certainly it is generally accepted that you do not call a miss when snookers are required.

[Odrl]

The part i am unclear about is whether the rules specifically prevent the ref from calling a miss in there circumstances. For instance if the player obviously makes no attempt to hit the ball, he would be warned by the referee about fair play, however i am not sure if he is in his rights to replace the balls in there circumstances.

Yes, the referee can always call a miss for a blatant non-attempt. That's the first thing to be considered. And when the referee is satisfied that it wasn't a "blatant non-attempt" (that's The Statman's term I think ), only then does whether snookers are required come into play.

[Hyperonic]

(b) If the striker, in making a stroke, fails to first hit a ball on when there is a clear path in a straight line from the cue-ball to any part of any ball that is or could be on, the referee shall call FOUL AND A MISS unless either player needed snookers before, or as a result of, the stroke played and the referee is satisfied that the miss was not intentional.

Does this mean that the referee can call foul and a miss if the cue ball fails to first hit a ball on when there is NOT a clear path in a straight line even if either player need snooker ?