Penalty For Not Hitting the Nominated Ball First in the FREE BALL Situation

[Hyperonic]

Will it be a foul if the cue ball fails to hit the free ball nominated as the ball on, but hits the ball on ?
For example, pink is the free ball nominated as red. In the stroke, the cue ball fails to first hit the pink but goes to hit the red.
If it is a foul, would the penalty be of 4 points or according to the ball on ? I can't find anything related to this in the Penalties Rule of Section 3.

[Hyperonic]

3. Mode of Play
(d) For a stroke to be fair, none of the infringements described below in Rule 12, Penalties, must occur.

12. Penalties
All fouls will incur a penalty of four points unless a higher one is indicated in paragraph (a) to (d) below. Penalties are:
(a) value of the ball on by
(i) striking the cue-ball more than once,
(ii) striking when both feet are off the floor,
(iii) playing out of turn,
(iv) playing improperly from in-hand, including at the opening stroke,
(v) causing the cue-ball to miss all object balls,
(vi) causing the cue-ball to enter a pocket,
(vii) playing a snooker behind a free ball,
(viii) playing a jump shot,
(ix) playing with a non-standard cue, or
(x) conferring with a partner contrary to Section 3 Rule 17(e).
(b) value of the ball on or ball concerned, whichever is higher, by
(i) striking when any ball is not at rest,
(ii) striking before the referee has completed the spotting of a colour,
(iii) causing a ball not on to enter a pocket,
(iv) causing the cue-ball to first hit a ball not on,
(v) making a push stroke
(vi) touching a ball in play, other than the cue-ball with the tip of the cue as a stroke is made, or
(vii) causing a ball to be forced off the table.
(c) value of the ball on or higher value of the two balls concerned by causing the cue-ball to first hit simultaneously two balls, other than two Reds or a free ball and a ball on.

[RGCirencester]

Foul of 4 points you must hit the nominated free ball first. I believe it is in the free call section of the rules but can.t find it now on my phone

[jrc750]

I would say the foul is 4 points, as you nominated the pink as a red, but failed to hit it. Then because you only hit another red instead or another colour, the foul is 4.

[lk8]

yeah, good point, it only specifies it's a foul if...

10. Snookered After a Foul
After a foul, if the cue-ball is snookered, the referee shall state FREE BALL (see Section 2, Rule 16).
(a) If the player next in turn elects to play the next stroke,
(i) he may nominate any ball as the ball on, and
(ii) any nominated ball shall be regarded as, and acquire the value of, the ball on except that, if potted, is shall then be spotted.
(b) It is a foul if the cue-ball should
(i) fail to hit the nominated ball first, or first simultaneously with the ball on, or

but funnily, doesn't mention what penalities are given when you "fail to hit the nominated free ball first", we always assumes it's minimum 4 or the value of the ball on, unless we "(iv) causing the cue-ball to first hit a ball not on," in which the penalty will be "value of the ball on or ball concerned, whichever is higher"

wonder what the ref's response is?

[Templeton Peck]

10. Snookered After a Foul
After a foul, if the cue-ball is snookered, the referee shall state FREE BALL (see Section 2, Rule 16).
(b) It is a foul if the cue-ball should
(i) fail to hit the nominated ball first, or first simultaneously with the ball on, or

12. Penalties
All fouls will incur a penalty of four points unless a higher one is indicated in paragraph (a) to (d) below. Penalties are:
(c) value of the ball on or higher value of the two balls concerned by causing the cue-ball to first hit simultaneously two balls, other than two Reds or a free ball and a ball on.

[lk8]

I can see the part where "All fouls will incur a penalty of four points unless a higher one is indicated in paragraph (a) to (d) below."

BUT what if the ball on was Blue, and Pink was nominated as the free ball, then we didn't hit the Pink first, instead we hit the Blue, BUT as no where in paragraph (a)-(d) specifies the penality for "failing to hit the nominated ball first", does it mean that the penalty is ONLY 4 POINTS???

[Hyperonic]

10. Snookered After a Foul
After a foul, if the cue-ball is snookered, the referee shall state FREE BALL (see Section 2, Rule 16).
(b) It is a foul if the cue-ball should
(i) fail to hit the nominated ball first, or first simultaneously with the ball on, or

12. Penalties
All fouls will incur a penalty of four points unless a higher one is indicated in paragraph (a) to (d) below. Penalties are:
(c) value of the ball on or higher value of the two balls concerned by causing the cue-ball to first hit simultaneously two balls, other than two Reds or a free ball and a ball on.

(c) value of the ball on or higher value of the two balls concerned by causing the cue-ball to first hit simultaneously two balls, other than two Reds or a free ball and a ball on.

In the situation that I described, the cue ball doesn't hit simultaneously two balls. So (c) doesn't apply.

[Hyperonic]

(b) It is a foul if the cue-ball should
(i) fail to hit the nominated ball first, or first simultaneously with the ball on,

If not hitting the nominated free ball is a foul, then where is the penalty for this foul mentioned in the rules ?


Also, how can the stroke be fair or unfair if there is infringement of Rule 10(b)(i), Snookered After a Foul, but no infringement of Rule 12, Penalties ?

6. Stroke
(b) A stroke is fair when no infringement of Rule is made.
3. Mode of Play
(d) For a stroke to be fair, none of the infringements described below in Rule 12, Penalties, must occur.

[The Statman]

It is there, you just have to look for it!


12. Penalties
All fouls will incur a penalty of four points unless a higher one is indicated in paragraph (a) to (d) below. Penalties are:
(a) value of the ball on by
(i) striking the cue-ball more than once,
(ii) striking when both feet are off the floor,
(iii) playing out of turn,
(iv) playing improperly from in-hand, including at the opening stroke,
(v) causing the cue-ball to miss all object balls,
(vi) causing the cue-ball to enter a pocket,
(vii) playing a snooker behind a free ball,
(viii) playing a jump shot,
(ix) playing with a non-standard cue, or
(x) conferring with a partner contrary to Section 3 Rule 17(e).
(b) value of the ball on or ball concerned, whichever is higher, by
(i) striking when any ball is not at rest,
(ii) striking before the referee has completed the spotting of a colour,
(iii) causing a ball not on to enter a pocket,
(iv) causing the cue-ball to first hit a ball not on,
(v) making a push stroke
(vi) touching a ball in play, other than the cue-ball with the tip of the cue as a stroke is made, or
(vii) causing a ball to be forced off the table.

Once you have nominated the Pink as the free ball, the Blue is no longer the ball on. Just as, after a red, all colours are balls on but once you have nominated one of the colours, the other five cease to be a ball on.

In this case, the value of the ball on (the pink, acting as a blue) and the ball struck (the blue) both have a value of 5, so the penalty is 5 (academically the 'higher of the two').

This does not fit well with the wording of subparagraph (c), I admit – but how else do you refer to hitting two specific balls simultaneously: the ball normally on and the ball nominated as the free ball?

[lk8]

cademically the 'higher of the two').

This does not fit well with the wording of subparagraph (c), I admit – but how else do you refer to hitting two specific balls simultaneously: the ball normally on and the ball nominated as the free ball?

EASY! "Ball On" & "Nominated Free Ball"! I think the rules stuffed up again, I think they have really left it out...

They explained it clear enough in the part "Snookered After a Foul" (which I think was recently rewritten)

I think the "Penalties" part needs to be amended...

easy to add a part (d) to say "value of the ball on by causing the cue ball not to hit the nominated free ball first or simultaneously with a ball on"
then move the seven points penalties to part (e)..

[The Statman]

cademically the 'higher of the two').

This does not fit well with the wording of subparagraph (c), I admit – but how else do you refer to hitting two specific balls simultaneously: the ball normally on and the ball nominated as the free ball?

EASY! "Ball On" & "Nominated Free Ball"! I think the rules stuffed up again, I think they have really left it out...

They explained it clear enough in the part "Snookered After a Foul" (which I think was recently rewritten)

I think the "Penalties" part needs to be amended...

easy to add a part (d) to say "value of the ball on by causing the cue ball not to hit the nominated free ball first or simultaneously with a ball on"
then move the seven points penalties to part (e)..

Yes but it can't say "Nominated ball and ball on" (which it does) because the 'ball on' is not technically a ball on once you've nominated another ball. Is it?

I agree that, on the face of it, the Rule is misworded but I think you would have to go with commonsense and decide that ...

(b) value of the ball on or ball concerned, whichever is higher, by
(iv) causing the cue-ball to first hit a ball not on,

... covers the situation where you hit a ball that you are not allowed to hit – i.e. penalty is either the ball you were supposed to hit, or the one you actually did hit, whichever is the higher.

[Hyperonic]

Can the striker play the stroke in which the cue ball first hits the ball on in the FREE BALL case, i.e. can the ball on be nominated as the ball on ?

[Krypton]

Of course he can do so, but he needs to nominate the ball that would be on anyway, otherwise it's a foul.

Like this:

You are snookered on all reds (technically, because neither red can be hit on both extreme edges), but you got an easy pot on a red.

The ref stats: "Foul, and Free Ball".

You nominate "Red!" and pot the red you can partially see - no problem with that, this is a legal stroke.


Or did i get your question wrong?

[The Statman]

Can the striker play the stroke in which the cue ball first hits the ball on in the FREE BALL case, i.e. can the ball on be nominated as the ball on ?

Well, the ball on can be 'nominated as the ball on', as you put it, but in effect what the player is doing is turning down the option of the free ball and just taking the shot as he would normally have found it.