Unusual endings to a frame

[graemehanson@talktalk.net]

Help settle a score!

Four handed game of snooker. The stakes are £1 a man.

The score for team A is 35, score for team b is 42.
ie. b is 7 points ahead. The game is a black ball game.

Team b, in open play, miss the black having a clear shot
at it. The theory is that team A expect to collect 7 points
from the foul and the scores are even.

The match stopped as it was deemed team b had fouled
the black and lost the game although had the points
been allocated it would have been meant points all square.

This is particularly looking at rule 4(a) I think. There
is a lot of rubbish on other sites on the correct ruling.

So, what is the correct action following the foul.

Cheers in advance.

[RGCirencester]

Surely the foul is awarded, scores level so respotted black??

[RGCirencester]

4. End of Frame, Game or Match
(a) When only the Black is left, the first score or foul ends the frame excepting only if the following conditions both apply:
(i) the scores are then equal, and
(ii) aggregate scores are not relevant.
(b) When both conditions in (a) above apply
(i) the Black is spotted,
(ii) the players draw lots for choice of playing
(iii) the next player plays from in-hand, and
(iv) the next score or foul ends the frame.
(c) When aggregate scores determine the winner of a game or match, and the aggregate scores are equal at the end of the last frame, the players in that frame shall follow the procedure for a re-spotted Black set out in (b) above.

4.a) scores are equal... 7 awarded to the oponent however no one can win becauseyou are tied... So the black is respotted.

[graemehanson@talktalk.net]

4.a) scores are equal... 7 awarded to the oponent however no one can win becauseyou are tied... So the black is respotted.

Sounds good to me so far.

Thanks for your wuick response.

[RGCirencester]

Respot the black, ball in hand, toss a coin for who takes the first shot. Next score or foul ends the frame like normal.

[RocketRoy1983]

Correct once again Rob

[snookerfan91]

4.a) scores are equal... 7 awarded to the oponent however no one can win becauseyou are tied... So the black is respotted.

I thought the same.

[appletango2]

Is there any choice who plays the re-spot after the coin toss and decision whether to play or pass the first shot?

[cally]

Is there any choice who plays the re-spot after the coin toss and decision whether to play or pass the first shot?

Winner of the toss has the choice to play or pass...

[Souwester]

Winner of the toss has the choice to play or pass..

But the winning side cannot say which of their opponents should break. Whoever breaks, the normal order of play for the frame must be maintained though.

[cally]

But the winning side cannot say which of their opponents should break. Whoever breaks, the normal order of play for the frame must be maintained though.

Oops, I was meaning between 2 players.....

[The Statman]

Yes, all answers above are correct.

7 points are awarded for the foul, resulting in a tied frame, so we have a re-spot situation.

The winner of the toss can elect which side will play the first stroke. The side playing the first stroke can choose which partner plays, which dictates who will follow because the order must be the same as for the frame up to now.

[vmax4steve]

I have never come across the situation where a player is seven points in front on a black ball game and misses the black altogether to tie the frame. I would have thought that the black would be played by the next player in turn from where the white comes to rest, unless the frame is deemed over by the foul on the black with the scores tied and therefore the black is re-spotted. If this is the case, then it is pretty unfair to those who have been fouled against if they lose the toss for the right to play from the D.

[Souwester]

But the rule has already been quoted:

4. End of Frame, Game or Match
(a) When only the Black is left, the first score or foul ends the frame excepting only if the following conditions both apply:
(i) the scores are then equal, and
(ii) aggregate scores are not relevant.

The first score or foul ends the game, unless scores are then level and you re-spot the black.

Agreed it's a little unlucky for the person fouled against, if he loses the toss, but at least he's still in the game. Being seven points down, with just the black on the table, getting a respot is the best he could have hoped for.