A conflict in my league

[davidhawkes]

Last night, I was involved in a local league match.

The conflict arises from someone acting as a referee but does not know the rules!!!

Player A (Mike Hayne) who was snookered missed the ball on (the green with the colours left).

The green was to the side of the brown, meaning that if contact was made to the left of the green there would be simultaneous contact with the brown.
In my mind, this constitutes a free ball.

The referee (John Parrott) did not state "free ball".

I called out from the audience, questioning whether it was a free ball.

My team mate Player B (Dion Newcombe) asked "free ball yes?" Everyone agreed.

Player B played the black off the cushion and unintentionally snookered player A with it in a direct path to the green. One can not snooker behind a free ball - so another foul has been committed. Again the referee did not state "foul".

I questioned again whether it was a foul. My team mate then made an outburst towards me (my temperament is much better than his) declaring that I am not reffing and that I won't be playing in the team next season! I responded by stating that I am following the rules of snooker. This was after I helped him gain a free ball in the first place!

I have this morning checked the rules on the worldsnooker website.

Section 3 Rule 11(c) states:

If a foul is neither awarded by the referee, nor successfully claimed by the non-striker before the next stroke is made, it is condoned.

Section 5 Rule 1(c) states:

If the referee has failed to notice any incident, he may at his discretion take the evidence of the marker or other officials or spectators best placed for the observation or may view a camera/video recording of the incident to assist his decision.

Was I wrong to call out questioning the incompetent referee? The person in question is not qualified, but just an amateur who plays a very poor game.

In my opinion, ALL MATCHES (even at beginner level) should be refereed by someone who knows the rules - or at least asks someone who does.

Player B ended up winning the frame anyway, so the fouls eventually were not an issue.

What do you think the situation should have been at the time of the unfair strokes being played?

[Watford]

I play in a pool leagues and have played interleague pool (town level)
The rule in pool is usually that only Captains can challenge a referees ruling and can ask to come to the table to have a better look.
A designated vice Captain can step in if Captain is playing or away.

This works well; you can't have a shouting free for all but refs do get things wrong. Probably more so at pool with all the Foul snooker, Total snooker, deliberate foul type rules in World rules.

This does put a bit of pressure on Captains to watch every shot though.

[The Statman]

Last night, I was involved in a local league match.

The conflict arises from someone acting as a referee but does not know the rules!!!

Player A (Mike Hayne) who was snookered missed the ball on (the green with the colours left).

The green was to the side of the brown, meaning that if contact was made to the left of the green there would be simultaneous contact with the brown.
In my mind, this constitutes a free ball.

The referee (John Parrott) did not state "free ball".

I called out from the audience, questioning whether it was a free ball.

My team mate Player B (Dion Newcombe) asked "free ball yes?" Everyone agreed.

Player B played the black off the cushion and unintentionally snookered player A with it in a direct path to the green. One can not snooker behind a free ball - so another foul has been committed. Again the referee did not state "foul".

I questioned again whether it was a foul. My team mate then made an outburst towards me (my temperament is much better than his) declaring that I am not reffing and that I won't be playing in the team next season! I responded by stating that I am following the rules of snooker. This was after I helped him gain a free ball in the first place!

I have this morning checked the rules on the worldsnooker website.

Section 3 Rule 11(c) states:

If a foul is neither awarded by the referee, nor successfully claimed by the non-striker before the next stroke is made, it is condoned.

Section 5 Rule 1(c) states:

If the referee has failed to notice any incident, he may at his discretion take the evidence of the marker or other officials or spectators best placed for the observation or may view a camera/video recording of the incident to assist his decision.

Was I wrong to call out questioning the incompetent referee? The person in question is not qualified, but just an amateur who plays a very poor game.

In my opinion, ALL MATCHES (even at beginner level) should be refereed by someone who knows the rules - or at least asks someone who does.

Player B ended up winning the frame anyway, so the fouls eventually were not an issue.

What do you think the situation should have been at the time of the unfair strokes being played?

Firstly, you are correct in your interpretations of the rules – it was a free ball; it was a foul for snookering behind it; it should therefore have been a free ball to the oncoming player.

However, you were wrong to interfere in the frame, which has three people involved: the two players and the referee. If either player had questioned the referee's decision, then the referee could have (and if he was unsure, should have) checked with someone else present. (Not an official referee taking official charge of the match; I am talking about an unqualified referee, usually one of the home team, who acts as ref – commonplace in most leagues I'm sure.)

Although you quote Section 5 Rule 1(c), that is referring to an incident that the referee hasn't seen but which a spectator might have seen. It does not apply to cases where there is no doubt what actually happened; only doubt as to what the Rules do to cover it.

In the end, unfortunately, as you say once the next shot has been played it is too late to do anything about a foul on any previous stroke.

It's hard cheese for both players if the person in charge does not know the rules, but it is strictly speaking not for you as a by-stander to intervene; if asked, you can offer your thoughts to the referee, though.

[Alex0paul]

Its good to see John Parrott is taking up refereeing now his playing days are all but over

[magicman]

Realistically, the ref should have been aware of such a common ruling.

This kind of situation has been talked about before, and while statman is absolutely correct in what he says, I think your teammate is a w****r.

He knew the rule, hence his immediate outburst, but had no intention of informing the ref that a mistake had been made. This is, as far as I'm concerned, no different than moving balls with your arm and not calling it yourself, or feathering a ball that goes unnoticed by the ref and playing on.

He'd rather win by cheating, than lose with integrity. His will to win is admirable, his lack of fair play and morals contemptible.

[andy carson]

print your team mate out a copy of the rules and write your resignation on the back of it...

find a new team

and dont interfere with frames in play if you aint playing in them or reffing

[The Statman]

Realistically, the ref should have been aware of such a common ruling.

This kind of situation has been talked about before, and while statman is absolutely correct in what he says, I think your teammate is a w****r.

He knew the rule, hence his immediate outburst, but had no intention of informing the ref that a mistake had been made. This is, as far as I'm concerned, no different than moving balls with your arm and not calling it yourself, or feathering a ball that goes unnoticed by the ref and playing on.

He'd rather win by cheating, than lose with integrity. His will to win is admirable, his lack of fair play and morals contemptible.

Yes I agree with that, too.